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Brookhaven City Hall Location?

Is this a good spot for City Hall?

At tonight's there was sidewalk conversation after the presentation about the idea of the new Brookhaven City Hall being placed on Peachtree Rd where the old Harris Teeter used to be. No one was really for or against, it was just a topic of discussion. The map below is the location. I was just curious what people thought of this idea.

Open Map

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Political Gadfly August 28, 2012 at 11:34 AM
don Gabacho also commented on Brookhaven City Hall Location?. ""I think that the Harris Teeter location is an excellent location for City Hall."---Buddy I've was told by a reliable source (though not Kroger) that the rent is $50,000/month. For what? An illegitimate government?" I used to lease retail space in shopping centers and malls as a Georgia Real Estate broker. A grocery store anchor tenant pays a rate per square foot so low that it would make the other tenants cry and revolt at the same time if they knew the total dollar amount paid by the grocery store. Was the reliable source also anonymous, like yourself ? "An illegitimate government?" How so ? Because a sour grapes poster says so ? That doesn't fly with the 55% of voters who voted for the city of Brookhaven. If this was a football game, the Yes voters won by a touchdown and a field goal.
Swan366 August 28, 2012 at 12:32 PM
I agree that the old Harris-Teeter center is a miserable idea. The parking and left-turn access can both be miserable, even at off-peak times; I quit shopping at that center long before the stores closed because of those very issues. It also does seem that the city would be giving up some potentially high tax income by taking over prime Peachtree Road shopping space.
Bryan Farley August 28, 2012 at 05:51 PM
Great location. The whole shopping center would need to be redone but the location itself is great. Right by MARTA, Dresden Drive, North Druid Hills Rd, and Peachtree Rd. As long as they don't use the actual old building itself and put something nice there that looks more "urban" or "small town downtown... ish" I'm all for it
Political Gadfly August 28, 2012 at 06:57 PM
Right by MARTA, the old Harris Teeter site, is the most important phrase in all of these discussions. Lower income citizens of Brookhaven might have one car between two working parents thus making it tough to go to city hall when they have business with the city, such a paying lower taxes than they paid DeKalb County. MARTA rail and bus system is the answer for those less fortunate than the median household income wage earners in Brookhaven. As for concerns about traffic congestion, I believe that most people in Brookhaven/Atlanta know that traffic is tough during the 2 rush hours, am and pm. I believe that many people who need to do business with city hall would come between 10:00 am and 3:30 pm to avoid getting caught up in rush hour traffic. Fortunately there is a traffic light in front of the mostly empty shopping center, which will greatly help with ingress and egress of traffic. If a lease could be negotiated low enough then the remodeling of this shopping center would be a plus for Brookhaven especially since the Hastings location is empty.
don Gabacho August 28, 2012 at 07:43 PM
don Gabacho also commented on Brookhaven City Hall Location?. "I used to lease retail space in shopping centers and malls as a Georgia Real Estate broker. A grocery store anchor tenant pays a rate per square foot so low that it would make the other tenants cry and revolt at the same time if they knew the total dollar amount paid by the grocery store."---Buddy Good to know you once leased retail space. You must therefore know that a City Hall is no grocery store; and just why HT is no longer anywhere close to Brookhaven anymore. I suppose you can claim a City Hall could serve as such an anchor tenant. For, gentrified no doubt, bail-bondsmen, check-cashing and virtual loan-sharking enterprises... Heck! Maybe even the bounty-hunter Duane 'Dog' Champman would pay for a premium locale closest to City Hall's front door. And http://mugshots.com/US-Counties/Georgia/ pay through the nose for a kiosk. "An illegitimate government?" How so ? Because a sour grapes poster says so ?" Nice to see how objective you are to not first make the attempt to find out why I say "illegitimate" by having asked me or simply searching the archived messages in this forum to know why. Obviously that is what you want others to think rather than others think for themselves. "That doesn't fly with the 55% of voters who voted for the city of Brookhaven." How do you know that any percent had even known enough to consider it?
don Gabacho August 28, 2012 at 08:11 PM
"Right by MARTA, the old Harris Teeter site, is the most important phrase in all of these discussions. Lower income citizens of Brookhaven might have one car between two working parents thus making it tough to go to city hall when they have business with the city,..."---Buddy Why in the world would anyone from the surrounding neighborhoods have go to a City Hall located only at HT's because a MARTA station is there? When they would have to walk, ride a bicycle, take a cab or even take a bus to other locales just as they would have to to get to the MARTA station that's there?
Raven August 28, 2012 at 08:18 PM
Buddy, don't bother with Dud Gazpacho. The best response to a fool is silence. He has yet to bring one SOLID valid argument to any board on this blog. He thinks he is offering genuine opposition when what you are really getting are the musings of an old fool rambling on at all hours of the night channeling Uncle Remus and being a guide in the jungles of the Yucatan. He is a hot bag of wind and nothing more. I must say, I love your point about lower income families being able to access city hall at the HT location, because of it's convenience to MARTA. That is a great point. I love when I visit the blog and actually learn something new, or see someones viewpoint I had not yet considered. That reason alone is the reason I continue to read it.
Raven August 28, 2012 at 08:36 PM
Thanks for that input. Maven- I'm so curious that if maintaining and cleaning up the parks is something you and your friends/neighbors have been doing for DECADES - do you not see something wrong with that? I can't tell you how many times we have done it at Ashford Park and just this past Saturday Ronnie Mayer had his guys on PIB cutting the trees and shrubs back as you approach Redding Road. That is on his dime- and it's because the county WE live in are crooked and useless. I don't send my children to public school in this neighborhood because I could not sleep at night knowing they were getting a substandard education - that supposedly the lions share of my exorbitant tax bill is supposed to cover! I'm done with Dekalb and obviously 55% percent or so of my neighbors and friends are too. I'm happy for you if you are satisfied with -again- the larger share- of our tax burden being sent down to South Dekalb for multi-million dollar water parks, pinewood derby parks and the like. Do you not want to see an increase in your property value? I'm so curious to know what you base your bad attitude on forming this city hood. There. I said it.
Raven August 28, 2012 at 08:47 PM
Eddie E - you are so right- since Dekalb County has done such a bang up job so far. Maven- what planet are you from?! Don't you dare pretend to know what myself or any of my neighbors and friends have done " to improve it's failing condition". Really? Do you have any idea the salaries of these WELL paid county workers - and I use that tern loosely? Why don't you do your homework a little better and then come back to class. Deadkalb is an epic FAIL because people are not doing what they are paid to do. Period.
don Gabacho August 28, 2012 at 08:47 PM
'Buddy, don't bother with Dud Gazpacho. The best response to a fool is silence. He has yet to bring one SOLID valid argument to any board on this blog."---cRaven Still the neighborhood's self-anointed vigilante I see. I have represented "valid argument" from "State Representative" Jacobs' invalidating membership on the so-called "Citizens-committee" C4DK, (when questioned about township, which would not require its own police force) Jacobs's invalidating declaration that the Constitution of the State of Georgia disallows townships, to the invalidating refusal to even assure the very integrity of any election and referendum by "first and foremost" taking the local offices of the MxGov to task for being provided and having still untold numbers of our own voter registration forms, and, in that regard, hold themselves to their own obligations of public office to even the most, as inadvertent as it had to have been, Corey Self's spilling of the beans: that the CVI study long billed as being "independent" was not. "He thinks he is offering genuine opposition when what you are really getting are ... is your barf. After unsuccessfully telling others what they must think, you have become an absolute vandal. Vandalizing the arguments and character of those who legitimately oppose for the sheer fact that you have no valid arguments and haven't the character to accept that fact and instead attempt to destroy those who oppose. Welcome to 'corporatist' governance.
Ray Mariner August 28, 2012 at 09:19 PM
TomMiller 4:55 pm on Monday, August 27, 2012 Ray what is the meeting about TU at BP? Tom- Here is the info about a series of Tuesday evening candidate forums at Briarwood Rec Ctr as reported by BrookhavenPatch last week. FYI... The Friends of Briarwood Park's first candidate forum is set for Tuesday night at 6:30, at the Briarwood Rec Center. Mayoral candidate J. Max Davis is set to appear and answer questions. Bates Matteson, who is seeking the District 3 seat, will appear on Tuesday, August 28. District 3 candidates Erik Steavens (Sept. 11); Julia Russo (Sept. 18) and Russell Mitchell (Sept. 25) are scheduled to appear next month. The forums run from 6:30-7:30 pm.
Political Gadfly August 28, 2012 at 10:39 PM
Barf, not thanks, I feel just fine for a senior citizen.
Brookhaven Maven August 28, 2012 at 11:07 PM
Buddy H & others who agree with him on this location - First of all, the MARTA train stop below Brookhaven doesn't really allow Brookhaven residents to access it easily. The one above (Chamblee) isn't much better. If you are suggesting Harris Teeter to be a great location because it's across the street from the TRAIN station, that just doesn't make any sense. If it's because that station is also for buses, then it would make as much sense to put the city hall near ANY bus stop or route, including somewhere along Clairmont or Buford Highway. Second, it costs $2.50 a pop to ride MARTA. That's $5.00 roundtrip for your "lower-income" families --- per person! Sorry, but that makes no sense, either. Most of the lower income families in Brookhaven are located over along Buford Highway. Those folks walk, bike and catch rides to pretty much everywhere. Since you live on Johnson Ferry, you wouldn't know that, though. They don't ride MARTA, because it's too expensive. If you are so concerned about the lower income families being able to access city hall, then put it in walking / biking / baby-buggy-pushing distance of where they live!
Eric H August 28, 2012 at 11:24 PM
Re locating city hall near train station for better access for those without cars. The bread and butter of MARTA is daily work commuters - occasional events at a limited city hall don't really contribute to transit ridership - though as I've said the current development doesn't either. In terms of transit accessibility for residents - there are pro's to the HT site and to Buford Highway - though perhaps different than what others have stated. There is perhaps the greatest residential density along Buford Highway and the Bus service is very good on Buford Highway as the bus service runs at 15 minute intervals so buses are as frequent as trains - actually after 7 pm the buses run more frequently. The Buford Highway line runs from the Lindbergh MARTA station to the Doraville station. There is also a private bus service that runs up and down Buford highway picking up passengers. I believe the bus to Emory leaves Brookhaven and crosses buford highway on Druid Hills Road. So plus for Buford Highway. Locating near the B'Haven train station would be great for those who take the train to work, like myself, because on the day of a meeting one could catch the train at Brookhaven and then avoid traffic that evening by taking the train to the meeting. In the end I don't think the transit access heavily favors either location.
Raven August 28, 2012 at 11:40 PM
When is the last time you rode MARTA, Maven? The 80's? Lower income folks most certainly utilize public transpiration. If they had to get to CIty Hall, once or twice a year or even a month, you can't buy 2 measly gallons of gas for $5.00. Much more cost effective to use MARTA. Furthermore, I'm not even all together sold on the HT location, but I am certainly open to hearing VALID arguments, such as Buddy's and others. People who voted and PASSED the city hood are tired of paid government employees being asleep at the wheel and misusing our tax dollars. What don't you get about that? These wild conspiracy theories about secret meetings and such are absurd! We haven't seen a glimpse of the corruption of the Dekalb county government- they don't know what taxes are being used where and why by their own admission! Again, please recheck your homework and come back to class.
don Gabacho August 29, 2012 at 12:00 AM
"If it's because that station is also for buses, then it would make as much sense to put the city hall near ANY bus stop or route, including somewhere along Clairmont or Buford Highway."---Brookhaven Maven Unless you live on Buford Hwy, the bus service is virtually useless everywhere else in the neighborhoods. Why spend $2.50 to wait on a bus when you can walk just about anywhere in the neighborhood and get to where you are going before any bus will get you there? MARTA's bus service has gotten that bad. A couple of weeks ago someone asked me where I was walking to from Ashford Park. I told the young, healthy young man that I was walking to Walmart. He was astounded that anyone would walk that far and said so. I had to tell him that its not far a all. About a mile and a quarter; and I walk it in about 15 minutes. No big deal. But, hey, these fellows have "walked the land" from their pickup trucks! Or, know from their passing in their SUVs when happening to glance beyond their cell phones. They are expert with even their phony regard for the poor. Even the supposed lack of coverage by DeKalb County police. If they walked, they'd see them. If they walked, they'd know why HT and Kroger couldn't make it there. If they walked, they'd see things happening in their neighborhoods that would make their hair stand on end.
don Gabacho August 29, 2012 at 12:06 AM
PS. In short, if anyone without a car just has to go to a City Hall at HT by bus, it would entail walking to the Brookhaven station and taking a bus to across the street.
don Gabacho August 29, 2012 at 12:15 AM
"When is the last time you rode MARTA, Maven? The 80's? Lower income folks most certainly utilize public transpiration..---cRaven Compared to any time in the past, you are absolutely daft.
Brookhaven Maven August 29, 2012 at 01:21 AM
cRaven @ 7:40pm - I don't ride MARTA very frequently any more, because they eliminated my bus route when they shut down the Ashford Dunwoody bridge. I used to commute downtown every day. It was just a short walk from my house to the bus stop, a quick bus ride to Chamblee Station, and zip into Atlanta. When I traveled out of town for work, I would take MARTA to the airport, as well. Nowadays, between the fact that there is no local bus service and that MARTA does not go anywhere I want to go, I don't ride it very often at all. I must drive. To your statement that lower income folks most certainly use public transportation --- I think you are the one who is out of touch. Go over to the apartment complexes in Chamblee and the low income housing in Brookhaven and just watch those folks come and go. The majority of them WALK! The men between late teens and early 40s use bicycles. In fact, they have an honor system worked out in Chamblee where they bike to an area and leave the bike --- someone else uses the bike to go to yet another area, and THEY leave the bike --- and on it goes. You didn't know that, did you? Very few of the lower-income families own cars. Those that do, use them for work, and not to run to the grocery store or to the bank or to the Clairmont health clinic. Go out and watch them sometime. They WALK! You accuse me of being out of touch with these people? Give me a break.
Brookhaven Maven August 29, 2012 at 01:42 AM
Another thing, cRaven - I'll bet you've never ridden on the Royal bus line. I have. It serves all points along Buford Highway, and would likely include a stop at a city hall located on or near Buford Highway. It's NOT very likely to go over to Brookhaven Plaza. Do you want to keep just the 6,000 impoverished people living in Brookhaven from participating in government? Or, are you aiming to keep thousands more non-white residents from being a part of this self-governing experiment? * * Calculated from the CVI report, page 17.
Steve Walker August 29, 2012 at 02:38 AM
...and many more of them go everywhere they desire in Taxi cabs, hence the 100's of Hispanic cab companies which inundate Buford Hwy.
Ben Podgor August 29, 2012 at 02:58 AM
Troy Wile proposed that the City Hall be placed above the Marta station, if it can be done. That is an excellent suggestion. I followed that suggesting that it be considerd. But, for some reason non of this appears on this board. Have seen statement that City of Brookhaven is 12 sq miles. That is incorrect. It is true that at some point it reaches 6 miles by 2 miles. But, that is only at certain points. The actual sq miles is less than 8 sq miles. This is important when you consider police and fire protection. DeKalb is 270 sq miles. At present your taxes are determined by fact that you have to supply 1100_+ police and 800 + fireman. Ben Podgor
Eric H August 29, 2012 at 04:54 PM
Ben how or where did you get that information that Brookhaven is 8 square miles?
Ben Podgor August 29, 2012 at 05:56 PM
Eric Hovdesven: If you put Brookhaven City into Google you will find writ ups about the new city. There should also be leads to the 2010 census. Found it in a couple of places. It makes sense, because it is not a perfect rectangle, it is not 2 by 4 in all places. If you find me wrong, please let me know. You can also find that Dunwoody is 13 sq miles and Sandy Springs is 39 sq miles. We, in Brookhaven live closer to each other than the others. Thus we are a true city. Ben Podgor
Eric H August 29, 2012 at 06:40 PM
Thanks Ben, I can't find anything that directly addresses that. Running quadrants on google maps comes up with a southern border of 2.2 miles so it could be that our widest dimensions are bigger than 2 x 6 miles. But I agree when looking at the map it looks like it averages under 2 x 6 miles and thus cold be less than 12 square miles. Not sure its under 8 square miles. Its an interesting point because it seems the smaller the geographic size the easier it should be to provide services. For example we have less lane miles than Dunwoody so less paving and drainage and less miles of sidewalks and police patrols.
Ben Podgor August 29, 2012 at 09:16 PM
Eric Hodvdesven: I found it again by putting brookhaven ga geography into Google. Here is the detailed address: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookhaven_Georgia#Neighborhoods_and_districts You should find it under Demographics, it is on the right. Try the first suggestion brookhaven ga geography so that you do not have to type out the address. I'm also not sure that I copied the dashes correctly as they may be- or_ Ben Podgor
Eric H August 29, 2012 at 10:06 PM
Ok I see it at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookhaven,_Georgia in the box on the left and its based on Census Designated Places. 12 miles to 8 miles (7.8 to be exact) seems like a big swing considering all the articles that used the 12 mile figure, which is what caught my attention. And I think that Wiki info is bad. I can find census data for the North Atlanta CDP http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/13/1356000.html I can't find a listing for a Brookhaven CDP in Georgia. Plus by looking at this drawing it looks like the North Atlanta CDP does not cover the entire city of Brookhaven. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DeKalb_County_Georgia_Incorporated_and_Unincorporated_areas_North_Atlanta_Highlighted.svg And the 2010 Census Data for the North Atlanta CDP And note the info in that box which apparently is from the North Atlanta CDP info has a population of just over 40,000 people which is 9,000 short of the total Brookhaven population. So I suspect the other 4 or so miles may be in another CDP that that box on wiki failed to include.
Stan August 29, 2012 at 10:12 PM
The original University of Georgia study described the area as 12.02 square miles. We then changed the boundaries to exclude Century Center, Plaza Fiesta, portions of PDK airport. So 7.8 square miles seems reasonable.
Eric H August 29, 2012 at 10:21 PM
Also the CVI study in coming up with their 12.2 square mile figure before removal of the triangle with the airport and Plaza Fiesta used State GIS data so I would go with that information. Granted its less than 12.2 square miles because that above mentioned area was removed, but that looks to be under 1 square mile of land, maybe under .5 square miles.
Eric H August 29, 2012 at 10:26 PM
The CVI study version that was done after removal of Century Center says 12.2 miles. I never saw the CVI study for before, when Century Center was in there, did that one also say 12.2? As described above, I think wiki is wrong its based on figures for the North Atlanta CDP which doesn't include everything in the City.

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