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Pro-, Anti-Cityhood Groups Debate Brookhaven Incorporation

BrookhavenYES and NoCityBrookhaven representatives debated the issue of incorporation on Monday night.


Representatives from BrookhavenYES and NoCityBrookhaven debated the issue of municipalization during a forum held Monday night at .

From BrookhavenYES were chairman , Stan Segal and Glianny Fagundo. On the other side of the debate were NoCityBrookhaven's Chuck Konas, and Jim Eyre of the Ashford Park Civic Association.

The forum was sponsored by the Reporter Newspapers.

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Eric H July 11, 2012 at 03:16 PM
"Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. – Sun-tzu" Hamburger are you saying I got to spend more time with Eddie? Don't threaten me like that! Seriously though, I have to work, I don't have time to constantly follow up, I have devoted a considerable portion of my life to following up with agreements and developments in DeKalb, and even if Brookhaven happens I will still have to do that since we will still be paying most of our taxes to DeKalb and getting many services from them. But at least for Police, Parks, Code Enforcement, Zoning, Development, Sidewalks, Roads and Drainage I won't have to navigate latest phone tree or pull as many teeth to get answers. Why do I say that? Because Brookhaven would be smaller with less people to find. Bottom line, the idea of an urban county of DeKalb's size delivering county services and these municipal services is a Georgia thing and its not a good way to do things. I shouldn't have to be an super sleuth to keep up, I shouldn't have to treat dealings with my local government as if its the Art of War.
Eddie E. July 11, 2012 at 04:07 PM
Eric, So at least we agree that public policy should not be made in collusion with the 'driveway lump newspapers'?
Eric H July 11, 2012 at 04:40 PM
Shoot Eddie why should I answer your question since you never answer my questions. But ok, fine, I'll answer your question. Yes "public policy should not be made in collusion with the 'driveway lump newspapers'" But I don't know which paper you are speaking of or what policy has been made in collusion with said newspaper. But I agree with the general principle. So how about answering one of my questions now? Like were you wrong or just use bad wording when you said Brookhaven may not ever get HOST dollars?
Eddie E. July 11, 2012 at 06:57 PM
Eric, As far as the HOST money, I don't know how much it would be, how it would be allocated or how far it would go in attempting to close the ever yawning budget hole developing for the imaginary Opposed City (nor do you). It probably won't make a difference, but it has been fun to watch you guys pretend HOST would be the hopeful rabbit pulled from the hat of lofty assumptions to make people believe the fatally flawed would somehow function. With each revelation, there is a fresh package of hopeful assumptions to paper over the realities of the revelation. For instance: Bad data = bad CV study, no problem, adjust the data (nobody really knows which data set was used or what the projected outcome was). Errors in the CVI exposed = No problem, the yessirs will provide whatever casts the best light on the erroneous study, after all, the study is just an 'outline'. Changes in the tax digest = Invent a new set of probabilities (and throw HOST calculations that are little more than a SWAG). Pretend all is well. New tax rates from the County = Pretend the County will raise taxes faster than the Opposed City. Remember, the Opposed City hasn't faced any real, transparent scrutiny because it is just so much hot air. In short: Lower taxes - False (higher taxes, overall higher occupation costs). More Police - No chance (without a much larger Police budget). Better parks - Not after the budget has been eviscerated to cover the Police Local Control - Not with these locals!
Eddie E. July 11, 2012 at 07:01 PM
not much, Well, at least the feeling is mutual!
Eric H July 11, 2012 at 07:24 PM
Ok so you seem to be admitting that you mispoke when you questioned if Brookhaven would get any HOST funds. Why would you say that? "As far as the HOST money, I don't know how much it would be,....(nor do you)." The CVI study's formula made sense to me, what do you think is wrong about it? And if HOST's proceeds went up 10 or 20% why do you think our share of the proceeds wouldn't go up? And if the estimates in the CVI study were wrong or the estimate of the increase was wrong why doesn't the county say something like they did with property taxes. I'm comfortable with the CVI's analysis and that the increase in HOST revenues will increase the decline in property tax revenues. "Bad data = bad CV study" What data is bad? "Errors in the CVI exposed = " What errors in the CVI were exposed? "Changes in the tax digest = Invent a new set of probabilities (and throw HOST calculations that are little more than a SWAG)." Swag? 20-25% of revenues is swag? Again if Revenues went up 10-20% why would our share go up in line with that?
HamBurger July 11, 2012 at 07:33 PM
Mr. Eric, you do not have to be a “super sleuth” to keep up with your government. If you connect with your government, you will find that most of the information you seek will come to you. If you don’t, you end up running away from your county government for the purpose of creating a city. What happens when you don’t keep up with your new city? Special hamburger?
Eric H July 11, 2012 at 07:35 PM
"New tax rates from the County = Pretend the County will raise taxes faster than the Opposed City. " How much are you paying for County Bonds that never should have been passed or were not spent well? isn't it true we can't exceed the millage cap in Brookhaven without a vote but DeKalb can do another 26% increase without a vote? Do you really think there is not more protection from increased taxes in a city of Brookhaven?
Eric H July 11, 2012 at 07:35 PM
"Lower taxes - False (higher taxes, overall higher occupation costs)." Ok for homeowners because DeKalb just raised the HOST Credit to 59% Brookhaven may not be able to beat Unincorporated DeKalb's rate. But for businesses and rental properties the property tax will be lower because they don't get the HOST info. And this 59% info just came out. "More Police - No chance (without a much larger Police budget)." We will have more Police patrolling our streets. http://brookhavenfacts.wordpress.com/ "Better parks - Not after the budget has been eviscerated to cover the Police" The projected spending triples spending on parks, cut it in half if its decided we need to spend more elsewhere, or spend less overall we are still spending more. Same with the projected large increases in Road spending. "Local Control - Not with these locals!" So you are saying a majority of the people in the proposed city of Brookhaven that would cover our homes will elect unaccountable people or bad people? Though even aside from whose elected local control also means more direct control that is more efficient and user friendly.
HamBurger July 11, 2012 at 07:35 PM
Mr. Eric, “you get what you pay for” does not apply here. You do what you have to do to elevate your brand and show that you are a player in your market. This was one of those unique times when no one had to pay, just donate your time. The panelists, the audience, and the hosts just had to show up at Oglethorpe University for an informative evening. A successful forum would have meant a lot to BR. A news paper hosted a forum and it was their opportunity to shine and add to their credibility. But, that did not happen. Who were the losers? The attendees. Please pass the yellow mustard!
Sandy Murray July 11, 2012 at 07:47 PM
The current charter absolutely does NOT talk about any services. Read it for yourself. Nothing! No services at all. AND no budget either. "Trust me" those Yesers say! HA! No chance of a city school system, unless you rewrite the state constitution. Don't hold your breath there either. Milton County would also require a rewrite of the state consititution and a state-wide referendum. Not likely either.
not one of 60 July 11, 2012 at 07:50 PM
To All the NO-sies! LOL...um were talking 12 percent of the bloated Deadkalb budget to use for our neighborhoods, this is a no brainer unless you in cahoots with corruption adn all things S Deadkab. XO! Best wishes! VOID VOID VOID...
not one of 60 July 11, 2012 at 07:51 PM
Gracias, Calle: Duke! Pen day oh...
not one of 60 July 11, 2012 at 08:01 PM
Gracias: SM I'd rather have no budget any day, any year any decade, any century, any millennium - than the Corrupt leaders abusing and using funds for soap box derbys and massive clear cutting of native North Georgia woodlands...where the Cherokee darter roams - The Sierra Club likely approves of this too: Right Eddie E?!
HamBurger July 11, 2012 at 08:35 PM
This link will take you to a DeKalb County map showing the residential property assessment change for 2011-2012. http://tinyurl.com/7wtkjg6 Please pass the yellow mustard!
not one of 60 July 11, 2012 at 08:38 PM
http://www.ajc.com/news/dekalb/school-board-fails-to-1476443.html?bigName=Hyosub+Shin&bigPhotog=Hyosub+Shin&bigCap=Dekalb+County+School+Board+members+(from+left)+Thomas+E.+Bowen%2c+Jay+Cunningham%2c+Sarah+Copelin-Wood+and+Eugene+P.+Walker+talk+before+a+meeting+to+discuss+budget+cuts+on+June+21%2c+2012.+&bigDeclCap=&bigCred=hshin%40ajc.com&bigUrl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ajc.com%2fmultimedia%2fdynamic%2f01418%2f062212dekschools_H_1418244c.jpg&superSizeImage=y sigh...
HDM July 11, 2012 at 08:41 PM
Ms. Mesh your demeanor and nasty name calling exemplify you group's contribution to this debate. Worthless.
not one of 60 July 11, 2012 at 08:45 PM
No properties should have increased one iota! They are still tanking! I don't care what side your on: yes/no hamburger/portabella... http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2012/05/29/spcase-shiller-atlanta-home-prices.html
HamBurger July 11, 2012 at 08:53 PM
one, you need to contact this fellow. He can assist you with appealing your property taxes. He sent his mailer to the northern part of 30319. Tell him Mr. HamBurger sent you! http://atlantaappeals.com/ Please pass the yellow mustard!
Eddie E. July 11, 2012 at 09:18 PM
Eric, This is pointless isn't it. You have a 'product' to sell, and I don't under any circumstances want to buy it. You lean on the 'yessirs' website for 'facts' and it should be obvious to you I place no value whatsoever in the yessirs definition of 'fact'. You need to stop for a moment and remember, it is up to the pro city crowd to MAKE THE CASE where this is a slam dunk, guaranteed, opportunity for long-term improvement for ALL of the area residents. I realize your frustration, as that case cannot be made. The facts do not even begin to support it. The sad part is that as the reality has become obvious, there has been no interest in anything from the 'yessirs' but to double-down on the propaganda and pretend that anyone who disagrees is being 'insulting'. It has become truly pathetic.
Eddie E. July 11, 2012 at 09:22 PM
Eric, And as to the 'locals', I am referring to 'those who would be king'. Our area is filled with qualified and capable leaders with the ability to LISTEN to their neighbors and friends and develop solutions. Unfortunately, those people have no interest in politics, especially in anything to do with the Opposed City. Those who have stepped forward so far lack a clear comprehension of broad public opinion and I, for one, would not vote for any of them.
Eddie E. July 11, 2012 at 09:39 PM
You probably need like a job or something.
Eric H July 11, 2012 at 10:07 PM
Yea Hamburger, true. My you get what you pay for quip though was a reference to the fact it was free. Thank goodness the Brookhaven Reporter is here though, imagine if it was the Neighbor Newspaper / Marietta Daily Journal? Eddie I don't lean on the Brookhaven Yes websites, though I think that link I posted about the police coverage makes valid points. I mean I see it with my own eyes, coverage in the newly incorporated areas has risen dramatically over when it was DeKalb providing coverage, yet by the numbers the DeKalb Police force should have a greater presence. Personally I from the dealings I've had and people I know, (unscientific yes) I think there's a lot of police not on the street. What I do lean on is the CVI study, I've got that saved and the city charter saved as well as the current financials and CVI study for Dunwoody. I understand many complaints about the proposed city and Brookhaven Yes but what I don't buy is the notion that its not fiscally feasible. Yes we are not Dunwoody, but then again Dunwoody has many similarities to us and offers some very helpful guidance or evidence. Yes I agree to convince people to vote for change, those for the city carry the burden of proof. However that doesn't relieve those opposed to the city from being held to a standard of accuracy or having a reasonable basis for making statements.
Eric H July 11, 2012 at 10:17 PM
You slick city lawyers with your fancy shoes!!! shakes fist. Sorry couldn't resist.
patrick July 11, 2012 at 10:56 PM
Was this the Same meeting that the present Dist 1 member was allowed to have a voice in affairs in her dist. and the TWO members that Never asked us ,tried and Lost in their sole control of are New City.
patrick July 11, 2012 at 11:03 PM
Jobs are coming to are New City Thanks to Boyer,May,Johnson,Sutton Watson had family issues the other two ,that We will Not have to bow down to were not able to keep jobs and Tax from coming to our New City.
not one of 60 July 11, 2012 at 11:41 PM
MazdOnly HA HA HA. LOL! I know you need an education...maybe a DEADkab GED!
not one of 60 July 11, 2012 at 11:44 PM
I don't pay taxes only the little people do, you should really talk to MEI about that, I's gots me some foundations! For realz!
Sam Talliaferro July 28, 2012 at 05:56 PM
"They're NOT telling YOU the truth." Chuck Konas "We're NOT telling YOU the truth." There fixed that for ya!
Jack of Kings July 30, 2012 at 03:01 PM
Lengthy Denials (Video) from NOCITY Brookhaven that Dekalb County was NOT involved with their campaign to defeat the proposed City of Brookhaven. The indignant denials start at the 2 minute mark of this video. It is almost uncomfortable to watch and hear what was said in light of the recent revelations of e-mails between Dekalb County employees and Ms. Jodi Cobb, the treasurer of NOCITY Brookhaven. I still wonder if Mr. Konas really even knew about the collusion of NOCITY with Dekalb and he was just an unwitting and innocent tool of Ms.Jodi Cobb.

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