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Local Voices

Transparency

I just returned from a meeting with DeKalb County Board of Commissioners and the county CEO's staff in Decatur. The meeting concerned the recent move by DeKalb county which adjusted millage rates seemingly in favor of residents living in unincorporated DeKalb as opposed to those living in cities. This action was carried out in a manner which highlights the need for transparency in government. Mayors and city managers (and at least one commissioner) from nearly all the cities in DeKalb county were there to express, in a unified voice, their displeasure with the complete lack of transparency surrounding this millage adjustment. City officials countywide were taken by surprise when they woke up recently to find that the county had effectively raised millage rates on their residents without consultation or effective notice. Decatur Mayor Bill Floyd spoke for those taxpayers and municipal representatives in attendance when he addressed the county Finance Director with "I am not here questioning your integrity but....."  This highlights how immensely important openness and transparency will be in our new city.

I got the same sentiment from Brookhaven citizens who came to the forum at the Briarwood Rec. Center last Tuesday night. It was nice to meet so many people with earnest ideas and thoughtful questions about the future of our new city. Among the topics of conversation was, you guessed it - How our city can use transparency and open doors to avoid corruption and transparency problems we see so often in government. I am completely and without reservation committed to transparency and openness for the city of Brookhaven. If I am honored with being Brookhaven's first Mayor there will be no door installed in my office. Closed or executive sessions will be scarce and citizen input and presence during city business will be paramount. Our new city is based on the free market model of the private sector bidding and then the fulfilling of most city services. If we don't have elected officials who believe wholeheartedly in this public/private model with transparency as its anchor, we risk reversion to the status quo as demonstrated by today's meeting with the county.  

During last week's forum it was good to hear citizens discuss these and other topics like fiscal responsibility, economically-viable sustainability measures, and community building. It will only benefit all citizens when more people share their own ideas about what they would like to see in our new city. I encourage everyone to attend future meetings and post their ideas here on the Patch. Please send your ideas or questions to my still in process website at www.jmaxforbrookhaven.com

Brookhaven Maven

1:34 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

J -

There has been a lot of discussion on the Patch forum boards about the seemingly closed committee meetings going on. The only way folks know about these meetings is to "register" with BrookhavenYes and volunteer to be on one committee or another.

Many (at least 45%) of our citizens don't want be on any committee, but they would like to know what's being discussed and what recommendations are being made. They would also like to have the opportunity to provide input to these discussions.

It is disingenuous of you to suggest DeKalb isn't transparent, while also maintaining that these committee meetings are open. Why aren't the committee meetings' times, dates and locations being posted publicly through several venues so that interested citizens (even those who don't want to be on a committee) can attend them?

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J. Max Davis

2:40 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

Sir or mam,
Thank you for your comment. It is a little funny to respond to a pseudonym about transparency.
The door to the Briarwood Rec. center was propped open last night so that anyone could enter. There were 22 citizens present last night expressing their thoughts and ideas in an open and honest manner. Everyone who had a desire to be on the parks committee was notified. Some of them were part of the 45% percent you mention. There have been countless calls in print and media about signing up to volunteer to help build our new city. Last night's meeting was a working committee meeting of folks continuing work on the task(s) at hand. Brookhaven Yes is really the only group that has been able and willing to facilitate this so you might want to just hold your nose and send your contact info to info@brookhavenyes.org. The various "friends of _____park" groups have also been involved so you could use that avenue to get involved. I emailed a photo from last night's meeting to the Patch so the still suspicious folks can see there is no conspiracy afoot. One man who drafts GIS maps donated a sizeable map of the city with the park footprints actually shown in green. Once the Governor's Commission is appointed (can't happen soon enough) Brookhaven Yes will wind down and all communications about the various committees, present and future, will be handled by that entity. It is my sincere desire that we can all come together, listen to one another and build this city together.

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HamBurger

4:27 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

Mr. J. Max, you and Brookhaven Yes have utilized the Patch for publicizing your positions for several months now. Today, you are garnering publicity for your campaign for mayor with this “Local Voice” piece. Yet, last night’s meeting received no publicity, to the general public in your new city except for an obscure blog post. And, that was almost an afterthought.

Foreshadowing of things to come in Brookhaven?

Please pass the yellow mustard!

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Jenn

8:51 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

I am pro-Brookhaven and voted yes, but I have to say, I volunteered to be on the parks committee (via email) and have heard nothing, so to say that everyone who had a desire to be on the parks committee has been notified is not true. Very disappointing.

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don Gabacho

9:27 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

Regarding my vaild concern: a feature making cities and townships distinct: the former having their own police and townships not:

"Mike Jacobs

5:33 pm on Monday, February 13, 2012 [Brookhaven Patch]

I've supported township legislation in the past and know from experience that there is not 2/3 of the House and 2/3 of the Senate to support the constitutional amendment required to give zoning power to a third type of local government (other than counties and cities)."

Did anyone see on the so-called referendum even the choice of Brookhaven being a city or township?

Tell me just where is this prohibition ---"other than counties and cities [to the exclusion of townships]"---that Jacobs does not cite in the State Constitution of Georgia?

http://sos.georgia.gov/elections/GAConstitution.pdf

Moreover, yourself being a lawyer, as is Mike Jacobs, how do you justify a "State Representative" having been on the initiating "Citizens Committee" C4DK---also?

Last but not least, how anyone could run for public office without first assuring the very sovereignty, and thus integrity, of the election and, indeed, referendum, by insisting their State Representative or any State Representative to first bring the ("incorporated" no less) Mexican Government to task for being provided and using our voter registration forms?

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don Gabacho

9:43 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

PS:

And while we are at it:

[Besides the initial "baseline" figures supplied to the CVI according to Corey Self] "What, and how much, other information was supplied to the CVI by the so-called 'citizens group' C4DK?"

Just who paid for the CVI study? And just from where and how did they get the money; and deliver it?

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J. Max Davis

9:52 am on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Jenn,
I have forwarded your post to the person responsible for responding to the numerous emails Brookhaven Yes has gotten over the past few weeks from folks with questions and wanting to volunteer. Could you please send another email so she doesn't have to search through all of them. I apologize that you haven't been contacted back.

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don Gabacho

10:05 am on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Jenn,

Ain't that something?

That you are required to get anyone else's, in effect, permission to volunteer yourself?

HamBurger

1:35 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

How convenient! This is very interesting that a man associated with C$ND and Brookhaven Yes would speak of transparency!

Please pass the yellow mustard!

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AshfordObserver

1:43 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

I had to ask where the parks meeting was last night. If the meetings aren't on your website, this transparency talk is BS

And I voted for the city

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Dean

2:16 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

What was the DeKalb Democrat bureaucracy's answer to the taxation ripoff?

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HamBurger

2:25 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

Mr. Dean, I just love it when you start talking about DeKalb’s Democratic bureaucracy. It brings to mind the Democrat turned Republican that introduced HB 636 and the Democrat turned Republican that signed HB 636. For now, we’ll just forget about that little detail . . . In Georgia it sounds like Republicans are for more government!

Cheerwine and a special hamburger?

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don Gabacho

9:32 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

"What was the DeKalb Democrat bureaucracy's answer to the taxation ripoff?---Dean

How lame. DeKalb County or no DeKalb County, Democrats or Republicans, the most vital questions remain deliberately unanswered.

You should be quite proud of yourself.

Phil

3:12 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

Hey, Bill. Why don't you send an e-mail into the info@brookhavenyes.org and ask to be put on the list to be notified? I did and I went last night.

It was a smoke-filled room with a guy named Guido looking through this small window in the door when I rapped the Secret knock and I was let in....

...and actually there were about 20 people listening to someone from the Friends of Murphey Candler Park that was informing the attendees on what they have learned in working with the county, Park Pride, doing master plans, the unique concerns of MC park etc.

I tried to listen for some secret, back door conspiracies whispered but, alas, I heard nothing except that there were some very motivated individuals that want to learn what they can to assist a new city in making parks a real asset.

Apparently, the "unfortunate" thing about all this for some posters is that the only organziation that thought of offering signing up for a volunteer committee was the organziation that WANTED to have a city. Imagine that?! Shocking!

That organziation, which will be defunct in a matter of days, continued to be a conduit for some committees when the Chairs and Co Chairs decided to have a meeting. Mind you that this basic, volunteer infrastructure is not funded. So this stuff about--"Where is my robo call?" and "Why did I not see an ad in three newspapers and a website and an e-mail when a meeting was going to happen?" is ridiculous.
The sooner the Governor appoints, the better.

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Eddie E.

4:08 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

In the interest of 'transparency', why didn't the organization that wanted a city have a plan in place for substantially more, entirely open, well publicized meetings to collect opinions and grievances?
Why did not the same group have in place a plan for NUMEROUS candidate forums and Q&A sessions to acquaint the Candidates with the Citizens and let the Candidates know what they had signed up for?
I have my own opinions as to why but I am entirely open to become educated with the FACTS.

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Stan

4:16 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

@Phil, you are 'spot on'.

Now that we've voted to become a city, we're all eager to have it up and running. Unfortunately, until December 17th, the city doesn't exist. I also think we may be creating unrealistic expectations about the Governor's Commission, these folks will have a full plate in establishing a transition plan and reaching out to the public may or may not be on their agenda. Once we have elected officials, I'm confident that connecting with the voters will be a very high priority.

The BrookhavenYES volunteers are just filling the void that exists in the timetable. If their email address wasn't still live, and their committees still active, we would be at a complete standstill. So let's give them a bit of credit for trying to help the community.

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AshfordObserver

9:37 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

2 people I know and I sent an email to BY for the parks task force. Zero information back in 2 plus weeks.

Let down.

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don Gabacho

9:46 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

"That organziation, which will be defunct in a matter of days..."---Philip

Yet, again and again, you have said that BY no longer exists---also.

By your own doing you have no credibility Philip

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don Gabacho

9:48 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

"The BrookhavenYES volunteers are just filling the void that exists in the timetable."---Stan

Per the referendum? BY was to fill any void?

Bill Lowe

3:21 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

J Max, I get the point of this article being a Rah Rah free ad for your campaign for Mayor.

You left out important details of the meeting you attended this morning with the Board of Commissioners and the CEO and his staff. It was a lesson in transparency. So what transpired during the meeting? Is there an answer to the difference in tax rates? Will there be an investigation or ethics charges filed or maybe a lawsuit to keep some folks busy? That was the other point of the article besides being a promotional piece for your campaign right?

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Eddie E.

4:10 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

Bill,
Lets wager.
I would bet the answers were (in order):
Not much.
No
No
Bingo!

Stan

4:02 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

@Bill Lowe, it's a reasonable question, but shouldn't it be directed at our County Commissioner Jeff Rader? I assume J Max was just an interested citizen attending a public meeting.

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Eddie E.

4:08 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

Stan,
You seem to easily 'assume'.

Phil

4:38 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

HamBurger , in the interest of partial transparency on your part, will you state here that you are NOT a candidate for a City of Brookhaven position? Obviously, we have to take you at your word. And you are still anonymous. So--

--Are you, HamBurger, a candidate for a City of Brookhaven political office?

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HamBurger

4:48 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

Mr. Phil, just look at your posts directed at me in the past. They are all on the Patch. You are a very hateful, demeaning, spiteful individual.

Through the years I have dealt with many folks from all walks of life taking care of business both in my public life as well as private. Even when I have had to deal with the most incompetent individuals be they professionals or mere labor, I have never lost my temper or addressed them in anything less than polite, respectful, direct conversation to get what I need done or to fire them.

You are a piece of work. I do not care to know you and your insulting suppositions in the past from my not answering your direct questions reveal just what a hack of a person you actually are.

Now, go to your room, no special hamburger for you.

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don Gabacho

9:57 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

"..you are still anonymous..."--Phil

Phil who? Phil Snarkey? Phil Rigamarole? Phil Anonymous.

Phil

5:09 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION, HamBurger--Are you running for a CIty of Brookhaven Office or not? Simple question. SImple Answer.

Just say "No, I am not running for office in the Ciity of Brookhaven" and be done with it.

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Bill Lowe

5:46 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

No, I am not running for office in the City of Brookhaven. I am not Hamburger though. Perhaps we should have a poll of who is Hamburger and who is not. Maybe a poll of who likes Hamburgers and what condiments they prefer.

Maybe Hamburger should run for office, but somehow I feel that would not be a good fit with the BrookhavenYes mentality. Hamburger would probably accept responsibility for its words and actions, whereas a BrookhavenYes candidate will surely pass it off as being a problem with someone or something else.(See blame on DeKalb County, ethics charges, South DeKalb, Etc.)

Brookhaven should be run by those that sold the city to the consumers. It's their product. Let them stand behind it and show everyone what it can do. By no means allow anyone to get in their way that can be blamed for a failure of any sort.

Everyone within the city has a few more months to get their affairs in order. Code Enforcement will be the least expensive service to get up and running with the highest rate of return. Do not give the city any chance to use you or your property as an example, because an example you will be, and the fines will be above average for a similar sized city.

As said before....Tick Tock, Tick Tock.

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don Gabacho

10:03 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

Philip are you running for public office?

Phil

9:42 am on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Let me go on record and say that I am not running for office in Brookhaven (or anywhere for that matter). I am a Marketing consultant for a number of clients. I voted for the City, but I was not an activist in Brookhaven Yes. I am not an apologist for BY, however I think there is alot of "sour grapes" lingering with a number of activists on the other side of the issue.

I understand the concept of disappointment and frustration. There are differing opinions and that can be expected. But when conspiracy theories are concocted and character assassinations and slander are thrown in, it goes beyond the pale.

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don Gabacho

11:09 am on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

"Let me go on record and say that I am..."---Phil

"Phil" who?

You're a malicious propagandist/censor.

don Gabacho

11:21 am on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

"HamBurger, don Gabacho, Eddie E. -- how can any of you offer valid commentary or criticism on Mr. Davis' discussion regarding the need for transparenc"---Shawn Keefe

What? I'v made no comments on the self evident.

Answer this; and, if you can't, demand Jacobs, Davis, Self to simply answer:

Regarding my vaild concern: a feature making cities and townships distinct: the former having their own police and townships not:

Mike Jacobs

5:33 pm on Monday, February 13, 2012 [Brookhaven Patch]

I've supported township legislation in the past and know from experience that there is not 2/3 of the House and 2/3 of the Senate to support the constitutional amendment required to give zoning power to a third type of local government (other than counties and cities)."

Did anyone see on the so-called referendum even the choice of Brookhaven being a city or township?

Do you require the definition for "stonewalling"?...

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don Gabacho

11:23 am on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

...Tell me just where is this prohibition ---"other than counties and cities [to the exclusion of townships]"---that Jacobs does not cite in the State Constitution of Georgia?

http://sos.georgia.gov/elections/GAConstitution.pdf

Moreover, yourself being a lawyer, as is Mike Jacobs, how do you justify a "State Representative" having been on the initiating "Citizens Committee" C4DK---also?

Last but not least, how anyone could run for public office without first assuring the very sovereignty, and thus integrity, of the election and, indeed, referendum, by insisting their State Representative or any State Representative to first bring the ("incorporated" no less) Mexican Government to task for being provided and using our voter registration forms?

And while we are at it:

[Besides the initial "baseline" figures supplied to the CVI according to Corey Self] "What, and how much, other information was supplied to the CVI by the so-called 'citizens group' C4DK?"

Just who paid for the CVI study? And just from where and how did they get the money; and deliver it?

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Phil

12:01 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

HamBurger-- Are you or are you not running for a political office in the City of Brookhaven? Yes or No? Why not just say YES or NO?

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p

12:09 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Mr. Davis: Thank you for your time and energy regarding tax millage issue. I look forward to hearing more about the meeting and outcome. A vote for BY was a vote against Dekalb County, inefficiencies, inexplicable decisions, graft and excesses. To those of posting above: all have grown weary of your personal snipes, lack of decorum and obvious fear of retribution; thus, remaining closeted in your mind and public identities. A proper offline discussion is recommended. Thank you & please, cease / desist airing personal, argumentative grievances in a public forum.
Sincerely, PCByce, Mabry Rd NE, Atlanta GA 30319 -- not afraid to be identified.

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don Gabacho

12:17 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

"...fear of retribution..."---PCByce

You've got that right.

"A proper offline discussion is recommended. Thank you & please, cease / desist airing personal, argumentative grievances in a public forum."

"Personal"?

You've got that wrong.

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HamBurger

12:55 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Mr. P, you do realize that you are still in DeKalb County. You still have the pleasure of dealing with DeKalb issues that will affect you as well as any new issues that may concern you in the new city of Brookhaven. Nothing has really changed except you now have another layer of government to deal with. Make sure you select an intelligent, knowledgeable group of people to form and guide this new city over the next two or three years or you will end up being no better off than the county many folks think they are leaving.

The advantage of not using my real name is that I do not have to deal with nut-jobs knocking on my door; I see them when I choose to on this forum. One last point and this is very hard for folks to understand, this forum in not a public forum. It is a private forum operated by a business using it as an accessory to drive business. As long as we do not violate TOS, we are all good.

Cheerwine and a special hamburger?

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Dean

1:32 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Very good post Mr./Ms. Byce.

Plenty has changed, and burgerflipper knows it. We will replace the DeKalb liberal Democrat bureacracy with what should be a more fiscally sound governance for those services that the city will provide.

But it know this, it is just repeated the obfuscation from it's failed NOCity DeKalb Democrat backed smear attempt.

The good voters of Brookhaven defeated the FUD campaign from burger and it's like, better days are due citizens of Brookhaven.

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HamBurger

2:13 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Mr. Dean, I just love it when you start talking about DeKalb’s Democratic bureaucracy. It brings to mind the Democrat turned Republican that introduced HB 636 and the Democrat turned Republican that signed HB 636. For now, we’ll just forget about that little detail . . . In Georgia it sounds like Republicans are for more government!

Cheerwine and a special hamburger?

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HamBurger

4:16 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Mr. Shawn, let’s hope you are not sending your children to public school in DeKalb. The way things are going with the local school system in the future it could be grounds for a charge of child abuse to send them there. But, nobody in Brookhaven gets involved with the school system because they are too busy creating a new city and besides, all the kids go to private school, right?

Hey, I got a shovel so you can dig a hole and stick your head in the ground and ignore half of your tax bill being wasted and the students being abused because they are receiving a public school education in DeKalb.

No special hamburger for you . . .

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Eddie E.

4:25 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Dean,
Yes tell us about the wonderful improvements to the lives of the average Georgian since the stranglehold takeover of State Governance in 2003 by the non-Democratic party?

I'm waiting.

Even one little tidbit would do.

See, so much nothing.

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HamBurger

5:16 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Mr. Shawn, well, you are to be commended for your concern, participation, and the depth of your involvement in your community. And, yes, Ashford is a shining educational facility. But, you know for the most part, you and your involvement is an extreme example of parent participation as compared to other schools in our area and system wide.

However, you do realize my comments about the state of our school system show the disparity between repairing what you have and running away to something you think will be better. A lot of people think a new city will solve all of our problems, yet there is little citizen outrage over the happenings within the school system over the past six years. So, we have more government and a school system that is the arse end of a mule. We have accomplished nothing.

Will recent BOE changes make a difference? Doubt it, but if they can lay a foundation for a new direction it is a start. Since Rep. Jacobs has finished with his city project, you think you can persuade him to use the next two years to finally organize his political associates to lobby and press for change in our school system?

Please pass the yellow mustard!

Phil

12:24 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Totally agree, p. Contributing opinions and concerns is one thing. Sniping at people by insidiously trying to undermine people who are publicly engaged in contributing is another. In my view, any candidate who posts here that takes potshots at candidates behind the veil of anonymity is taking unfair advantage of these boards.

Now if a candidate wants to use these boards to advance their message and declares who they are, I do not think anyone objects because it is a valid communication inititiative.

So, if a poster has sniped at candidates and is anonymous, it makes sense that that anonymous poster declare that he is not a candidate (and his/her sign-in is not being used by a candidate) when directly asked. There are only a few posters here that this question could apply to.

By not answering a direct question regarding this, the silence suggests the poster IS a candidate. Would you not agree?

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Corey Self

12:50 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Couldn't agree more Phil. Of course, we know who Don and Eddie are and neither are running for office. The real question...why won't HamBurger state for the record that he is not a candidate? I suspect he his a candidate and understands how much his negativity on these boards would hurt the campaign and the chances of getting elected.

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HamBurger

12:56 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Mr. Phil, do you happen to know any insidious snipers named Phil?

Pass the yellow mustard!

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HamBurger

12:58 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Mr. Corey, I would have thought that you of all people would have been smart enough to concentrate on the relevant people and issues regarding this new city instead of concentrating on Mr. HamBurger. And, you were a member of C$ND?

Special hamburger?

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Dean

1:37 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Guys, I would recommend we ignore these individuals except to discuss the few actual salient points they bring up.

Other than that, our attention only fuels the trolling.

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don Gabacho

1:54 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

"Couldn't agree more Phil..."

Why should anyone care what you agree with when,

1:05 am on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

You can still answer these---given you have them in private:

"Why don't we meet face to face to discuss this a bit more? I'll gladly walk you through how the citizens provided information to CVI for the study.---Corey

Just step up and answer the question here:

"What, and how much, other information was supplied to the CVI by the so-called 'citizens group' C4DK?"

And while your at it:

1) Just who paid for the CVI study? And where did they get the money?

2) Just where in the Constitution of the State of Georgia does it say that townships, somehow being prohibited, would require, as your fellow member of the so-called "citizens committee," C4DK, "State Representative" Mike Jacobs, declared would require a state-wide referendum to allow?

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don Gabacho

5:24 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

"Of course, we know who Don and Eddie are and neither are running for office. "---Corey

Yes I am.

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Dean

5:50 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Town drunk doesn't count, don

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don Gabacho

6:08 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

"Town drunk doesn't count, don'---Dean

I didn't say Jacobs was running for Mayor.

I said I was.

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don Gabacho

6:23 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

PS:

Dean, you never take your own advise:

"Don't feed the trolls."

I don't blame you.

You'd starve to death otherwise.

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don Gabacho

6:46 pm on Wednesday, September 5, 2012

Corey Self,

Yet again:

You can still answer these questions here in public---given you have them in private:

"Why don't we meet face to face to discuss this a bit more? I'll gladly walk you through how the citizens provided information to CVI for the study.---Corey Self; Comments B'Patch

"What, and how much, other information was supplied to the CVI by the so-called 'citizens group' C4DK?"

And while you're at it:

1) Just who paid for the CVI study? And where did they get the money?

2) Just where in the Constitution of the State of Georgia does it say that townships, somehow being prohibited, would require, as your fellow member of the so-called "citizens committee," C4DK, "State Representative" Mike Jacobs, declared would require a state-wide referendum to allow?

"Q: How did UGA Carl Vinson Institute (CVI) come up with the numbers they used in the study?
A: CVI has a great deal of experience with these types of studies. (See CVI Local Government Services page www.cviog.uga.edu/local-government-services) Generally, they look at the population of cities with similar demographics to estimate what the need would be for the new city. Neither C4ND nor Brookhaven Yes provided any numbers to the CVI as they were solely responsible for acquiring and analyzing all comparative data in the study. The non-partisan academics at the Carl Vinson Institute..."

http://brookhavenyes.org/faq.php

Phil

1:02 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

HamBurger-- Are you or are you not running for a political office in the City of Brookhaven? It is becoming increasingly clear that you are (or someone who has access to your sign in) a candidate for political office.

Are you running for Mayor? Or Council Member, HamBurger? Which is it?

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HamBurger

2:01 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Mr. Phil, it is amusing that you persist with this line of questioning. If you recall, at one time you were accusing me of having mammary glands and repeatedly insisted that I had them long after I told you I did not. What is the point of answering questions from such a person that is not satisfied with an answer? Any answer to you is simply more fodder for your speculation! Did Rep. Mike Jacobs as you to run some interference here like he did Mr. Max?

Your behavior of persisting with the same questions over and over has become stalker like. Your behavior strikes me as odd and eerie . . . I have never had a stalker before, but in an oddly demented way I think I am beginning to like it!

You ready for that special hamburger now?

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Dean

2:12 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

In the burgerflipper's own words "in a demented way I think I like it".

Don't give it the satisfaction.

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HamBurger

2:32 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Mr. Dean, or, maybe Mr. Phil will direct his concerns towards the new city . . . That is what we all come here to discuss.

Please pass the yellow mustard!

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don Gabacho

9:48 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

"Mr. Phil, it is amusing that you persist with this line of questioning. If you recall, at one time you were accusing me of having mammary glands and repeatedly insisted that I had them long after I told you I did not. What is the point of answering questions from such a person that is not satisfied with an answer?"---Hamburger

You still don't get it. It ***really*** is an Inquistion.

"Any answer to you is simply more fodder for your speculation!"

It' not "speculation." It is a form of hazing to deflect from the critical issues---while, of course, defaming.

In Mexico it is called "cantinflear.'

"Did Rep. Mike Jacobs as you to run some interference here like he did Mr. Max?"

You are still overestimating Jacobs. It's not even a matter of who is pulling his strings and his pulling Max's.

It's not even a matter of who is pulling all their strings.

It's a matter of who has that puppeteer by this short hairs...

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don Gabacho

9:50 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

..."Your behavior of persisting with the same questions over and over has become stalker like."

Yes. And if you're obstacle enough, you will be stalked from one forum to another with the same sensless, but always defaming, script.

And, when not in a forum, they can and do, even without your being aware of it, put you in one.

"Your behavior strikes me as odd and eerie . . . I have never had a stalker before, but in an oddly demented way I think I am beginning to like it!"

No you won't.

Just stalking is playing nice.

There are ample legal grounds and avenues for taking those who are propelling this new governance, on our level, to task.

Start with them and it will unravel from there.

And it needs to start now.

It can even start now by helping ourselves and Brookhaven Patch by not allowing these censors continue to succeed in smothering what they are censoring; and focus our discussions on that.

Raven

1:15 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Hamburger, quite frankly, every time you say "specialhamburgercheewineyellowmustard" you, yourself diminish your own thoughts and opinions. if your thoughts and opinions are "diminished" then thank yourself. I don't think anyone can read any of your posts without laughing - how stupid!

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don Gabacho

2:40 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Beats axle grease on onion rings.

Phil

1:24 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

HamBurger-- When is your "Meet the Candidate for Mayor" Forum scheduled?

If you win the Mayoral race, what would be the first thing you would do?

One other question: Do you think it is appropriate for a candidate for political office should be posting under an alias--especially when the subject of many of their posts are other candidates?

Thank you for your transparency, HamBurger. And good luck in the Mayor's Race.

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"E Pluribus Unum"

1:40 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

J. Max Davis, I don't believed you directly responded to a very valid, honest question by Brookhaven Maven.

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Brookhaven Maven

9:52 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

EPU @ 1:40p -

Thank you for this post. J Davis is not likely to respond to any such question directly, in my experience of having known him for over 30 years. Note that he still has also not responded to the very valid questions from others about what the outcome of the meeting was. If J gets elected (God help us) expect more of the same.

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Mavens aren't anonymous

10:16 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

From the age shown in his bio it would seem you have known Mr. Davis since Elementary school. Did he knock you down on the playground or something? Did he not answer your snarky questions as a child? You seem logical with some of your posts like the Skyland Park ideas but on others when you blame Jacobs for creating this "mess" show just how bitter you are against anyone involved in helping create the city. Your Skyland post shows how bad a job Dekalb has done with our parks but I guess you wanted " to work to change Dekalb from within". Other posts about yes people all being racists, etc. just how you are governed at times by irrational emotions.

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don Gabacho

12:33 am on Thursday, August 30, 2012

"From the age shown in his bio it would seem you have known Mr. Davis since Elementary school. Did he knock you down on the playground or something? Did he not answer your snarky questions as a child? You seem logical with some of your posts like the Skyland Park ideas but on others when you blame Jacobs for ..."---Mavens aren't anonymous

So? You have identified the dissenter.

Who appointed you City Secret Police Chief?

Show me your papers!

Phil

2:38 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

HamBurger is a candidate for office and is posting against his opponents without attribution. Pretty sleazy, HamBurger. The City of Brookhaven deserves better. The sad thing is that someone might vote for you without knowing that you were using this forum to advance your candidacy--without being upfront about it.

The fire calling the kettle black.

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Thomas T Telford

3:14 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Phil,
Your Hamburger fixation is growing tired. Move on silly fella. And since you know so damn much about Brookhaven and what's best for us all - as the grand high poobah of upper buttcrack - when are YOU going to have YOUR forum?

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Bill Lowe

3:21 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Via Phil: "But when conspiracy theories are concocted and character assassinations and slander are thrown in, it goes beyond the pale." Talk about conspiracy theories....Hamburger as a candidate? I doubt it. But to go ahead and out Hamburger as a candidate without specifying which one it is? That is definitely a theory, and the conspiracy may be more on J Max side than an anonymous poster that could run for office.

This conspiracy is purely political and is being run by the hardly oiled J Max Davis group of political hangers on. They all want a piece of the pie at some point and to be employed within the ranks of a political party....shuffled around amongst friends and sometimes competitors. Making a name for themselves by way of being an online lackey as well as a personal brown noser to those that hold their future in their hands.

Is there a reason for anonymity among those on either side of the political/government battles online? Yes, there is. Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt....and with good reason. Retribution is not out of the question among those that seek political power. Real name association with a failed product is another potential future killer.

Those that truly believe in their position on government and are not afraid of it should not hesitate to make their real names known. Anyone who speaks out against it should protect themselves in every way possible, including being anonymous. Government earns respect out of fear, always been that way.

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Dean

3:29 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

And bill doubles down on the paranoia...

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Bill Lowe

3:34 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Hi Dean.

Doubling down is a good bet when you have the right cards and the dealer is showing crap....and always split those 8's and Aces.

Dealer has crap, so I will double down.

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Thomas T Telford

3:48 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

If you go way way back in the Patch, the evidence shows who Hamburger actually is. It's there boys. I won't make it easy but it's there. Early 2011. Patch installs ghost writers to stimulate conversation and most of the time they are controversial posts.

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Dean

3:49 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Bill, you should to learn to let go your anger over your neighborhood not being able to be included in Brookhaven.

Move on, bro, don't denigrate people you don't even know over an issue you misunderstand.

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Bill Lowe

4:31 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Poor Anonymouse Dean. I don't feel for you. You're just another ignorant sheep being herded through life. Don't worry, The Herders(tm) or as you would prefer, *they*, know what is best for you and you take direction well from your masters.

I'm not angry. I've explained my position many times before and in such simple language. To rehash it again just makes you look even more like a dumb shill.

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Eddie E.

4:32 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Phil,
What's up with you clowns.
Is it that troubling to you to have an individual point out the glaring errors in the 'brokehaven mythology'?
Don't you think the Public will come to understand the reality of being overtaxed, underserved and embarrassed?

By the way, when will there be a broad Public Forum for all the Candidates?
So much for the 'by invitation' events (gotta keep those not drinking the kool-aid out of the room)!
It's bad enough that a cabal had such a distaste for being unable to take the reins through available elective office that they had to INVENT a new area to control but to pretend that everyone is 'on board' with the yet-to-accomplish-anything municipality on simply a good faith pretense is absolutely absurd.

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Eddie E.

4:35 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Bill,

All things considered, it might be a good time for the DECA folks to take a good close look of what awaits them if they elect to be 'assimilated' as the town where I work has it's own 'resistance is futile' problems.

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Bill Lowe

5:14 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Eddie, Here is my take on the annexation:

If Brookhaven can be sold smelling like garbage to a majority, then our annexation can fail when it smells like roses. I see the potential benefits to both DeKalb losing DECA and Chamblee gaining DECA with this annexation, but the fact remains sheep are everywhere and they tend to follow rather than plot their own course.

The garbage smell will still linger if this annexation fails as the city of Brookhaven will more than likely come and snatch back all of that commercial space that was adjusted from the city lines before the Senate passed the bill and the Governor signed the law. Even the bordering residential areas will be left out again. I am totally expecting this and no one should be surprised when it does happen. Brookhaven needs the money, and certainly does not want any more neighborhood activists within it's boundaries(DECA is a noisy group and is quite effective at being heard and getting results.).

There is a potential huge benefit to being a part of the Northern DeKalb cities(Brookhaven, Chamblee, Doraville and Dunwoody) which many people do not realize. That is the formation of a new school system with the combined resources and legal wrangling of these cities. Cleaning up the school system/resetting the expenses back to a normal level will not happen without the creation of a new system that is uninfected by the bloat.

Democracy is still quite an entertaining process even with all the sheep.

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don Gabacho

5:29 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

"DeKalb losing DECA and Chamblee gaining DECA with this annexation..."---Bill Lowe

Not with Chamblee's police.

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don Gabacho

6:02 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Bill, Do recall:

6:58 pm on Saturday, July 28, 2012

"I gladly accept the title of 'troublemaker'. I should let you know that everyone opposed to the creation of a new city is also a troublemaker."---Bill Lowe

Bill, you need to understand that Sam is "Mexican."

In Mexico there is no greater offense than resisting, and being at all critical of, central authority.

For that government's officials, and for those ingratiating themselves to that government, there is no greater denouncement as "troublemaker."

Central authority has spoken. There is to be a City of Brookhaven.

Welcome to the Inquisition now in America; particularly "Brookhaven."

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Eddie E.

8:08 am on Thursday, August 30, 2012

Bill,
Before going wild with a new school system, shouldn't we FORCE the state to reinstate their half of education funding?
I mean we can pick on anybody for being unable to do an appropriate job with half the money, but how would a new 'system' that started from broke be any better?

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don Gabacho

11:18 am on Thursday, August 30, 2012

"What's up with you clowns."---Eddie E.

As early as:

"don Gabacho

11:05 am on Sunday, February 19, 2012

The 'BrookhavenYes' event is billed RSVP which nowadays does not necessarily mean just to exclude. It can also mean to include and isolate an individual or individuals inside, within the invited peanut gallery, to be subjected to a video production producing video that, redigitalized and reedited, can have the subject talking to people the subject never met, saying things never said, doing things never done in even places never been.

Inside a perceptible bully-pen/"capture stage."

Even with an educated and vigilant crowd just outside viewing in; though now unlikely.

As it is, it would be most wise not to venture off the sidewalk and inside anywhere past the public sidewalk itself, which, given surveillance nowadays, is probably being videoed too.

Meanwhile do start educating yourselves to a new and most pertinent phenomenon around and about. Do an I-Net search using the following key words: "motion capture stage Texas."

And, when you go, do go with video cell phone cameras and video cameras etc.

Time to turn the cameras."

High-time to get ahead of the eight-ball. No?

AshfordObserver

7:13 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

At work today I created a filter that actually blocks donnie gosloucho posts.

Life is good again.

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don Gabacho

7:34 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Adept at manipulating webpage posting. Eh?

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Bill Lowe

10:50 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

BHOs are fun. There are a few good ones out there, obviously created by Lord Of The Rings fans.....

There is the:

Shire BHO---which paints everything perfect and happy go lucky---You'll never see anything negative online.
Mordor BHO---Which makes everything online negative....has an option for negative based ads even.
Gollum BHO---This one is so strange, It defies description. Take Gollum and turn it into a BHO and that is essentially what you get.

Heh.

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don Gabacho

11:47 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

"BHOs are fun."---Bill Lowe

If AshfordObserver and his fellows were sincere, all they'd have to do is take notice of the name at the top of the post and, if they don't want to read that person's posts, not read the post. No one is forcing them too.

Since Day One they have not been sincere to instead attempt to tell others who to read, pressure Brookhaven Patch to "do something about it" and even come up with phony posters claiming the posts are "negative" and the poster will not be reading the Brookhaven Patch anymore.

They do so to censor what is being said because what at least I am posting will defeat them.

There is no use arguing with them. Point out how they are wrong. They don't care if they are wrong. Nor do they care that others will argue with them because they are supposed to be Republicans. They are no more Republicans than they were Democrats.

They are only glad when others waste their time and everyone else's on their deliberate rigamarole while foisting off this new governance.

They care nothing about whether this new governance is even in DeKalb county or any other. It's all a charade. And a very deliberate one.

What it does have to do with is their selves, and their new governance, having to be stopped---PERIOD.

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don Gabacho

12:00 am on Thursday, August 30, 2012

Bill,

Do you know of a brave lawyer who can frame ample grounds in whatever the legalese would be to take certain persons before the Georgia Bar Association and certain arguments before the Supreme Court of Georgia---despite the personal political persuations or ambitons of anybody?

We can frame right here in this forum. In the open. No problem.

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Phil

12:01 pm on Thursday, August 30, 2012

don Gab "Ignore" app does work! Thanks AshfordObserver.

Brookhaven Maven

10:06 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

To All -

For the record, I am not a candidate --- for anything.

Also not on the BOE, DKPD, DCSS, any DK Commissioners' office, and so on. Was not and am not part of BrookhavenYes, NoBrookhaven, NoCity.org, C$ND, or any other of those groups.

Don't belong to any formal political party. I vote the person - not the party. I vote the logical, informed response - not the bill of goods. It's nobody's business how I voted on cityhood --- or any other candidate or issue --- unless I choose to make it so.

I choose to use a pseudonym, because I don't want any personal or professional recriminations --- or to be boxed out of the future participation in city management.

After some of the truths I've spoken, do you really think the people elected as our first governing body are going to let me into any council meeting --- if they know who I am? Not a damn chance!

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Eddie E.

11:12 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

As America's Greatest Living President once said, 'I feel your pain'.

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don Gabacho

12:12 am on Thursday, August 30, 2012

"After some of the truths I've spoken, do you really think the people elected as our first governing body are going to let me into any council meeting --- if they know who I am? Not a damn chance!"---Brookhaven Maven

If they knew who you were, and you really had said anything that would really cook their gooses, you be invited to what they say is a "Consul Meeting."

I can assure you that, with what you have said and done so far, you are of no concern to them. You in fact help them by even allowing this new governance by thinking, like others, you can deal with them once this governance is set up.

AshfordObserver

10:59 pm on Thursday, August 30, 2012

Ben Franklin used pseudonyms.
http://www.pbs.org/benfranklin/l3_wit_name.html

BM no problem there. Especially since some here who use an alias here outed a private citizen who merely wanted to post something.

There will be a new city just as surely as the sun will rise on 12/17. Im going to chime in at meetings too..maybe even run as a write in candidate.how will J Max handle that?

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Eddie E.

11:31 pm on Thursday, August 30, 2012

Would jmax be 'Poor Richard' or just 'Poor Choice?

Grieg Ericsson

7:31 pm on Monday, September 3, 2012

Vote YES FOR THE FUTURE OF BROOKHAVEN!!! VOTE NO TO JMAX DAVIS!

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Common

8:08 pm on Monday, September 3, 2012

Kind of funny coming from somebody who voted so that Brookhaven would never have a future. I guess you want No City Sandy or maybe someone form the European Socalist ticket.

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HamBurger

8:11 pm on Monday, September 3, 2012

Ms. Common, LOL! I am voting for Mr. J. Max Davis! I want to see him and his puppet master, Rep. Mike Jacobs sweat bullets when everyone finds out what a fraud their new city has become in the third year of cityhood and see their response to the J. Max lifestyle in their new city of Brookhaven!

Hey! C$ND and Brookhaven Yes has controlled everything so far, let them continue to control their new city. Let those folks see what life is like in their neighborhoods and the the reception they receive from the extremely dissatisfied taxpaying citizens of their Brookhaven!

Please pass the yellow mustard!

Common

8:26 pm on Monday, September 3, 2012

Sounds like a good strategy. Make them prove it can work- if it works they will be too busy celebrating and continuing the success to care what you may have said. If it doesn't work you can say "I told you so" and run for office yourself.

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Phil

9:46 pm on Monday, September 3, 2012

Common--I applaud your efforts to be reasonable and rational with these posters with carpal tunnel syndrome, but their strategy is to exhaust all who disagree with their general assertion that everyone associated with bringing the incorporation of the City of Brookhaven are corrupt. Mind you, they have nothing but their opinion to "support" this charge, but that will not stop them from posting 20-40 times a day on Patch.

What is unfortunate is that these posters monopolize the boards with repetitive postings that I, too, have found myself wasting my time going through theirs to find a few nuggets of wisdom by the occassional poster.

I wish Patch could put a posting limit per day per poster. Maybe they would think twice before they post about the Mexican Government conspiracy, smoke filled rooms, and cheerwine.

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