Sandy Springs and Dunwoody may have a few issues (the next perfect government, like people, will be the first) but their governance is far more sane than DeKalb's is of the unincorporated areas, as we learned in 2011 with a 26% property tax increase from the County bureacracy.

Now that the 'mayors' have had their say, it's time to open up the discussion to more of the 'subjects' in the new cities.
To assume everyone is overjoyed with their lot is a very mistaken assumption.

All because the County hasn't kissed a very few people they way they feel entitled to be kissed.

If by "kiss" you mean "refrained from buggering with a hot poker" you are right on Eddie. All many residents want from their government is to keep the peace and stay out of their wallets as much as possible, but DeKalb would rather hike taxes by 26% in the middle of a recession.

Dean,
Would you prefer the County do like the Federal Government and cut revenues well below necessary levels because of some insane economic theory?
Of course, the County is following laws requiring balance in the accounts, therefore along with the 'bubble' in real estate values, there was a 'bubble' in taxes.
The little burp in taxes doesn't cause me to lose sleep, much less dive into the stupidest idea of governance to crop up in my lifetime.

Eddie, reputable studies show that the DeKalb bureacracy employs many redundant middle managers and politically connected hangers on, perhaps if this wasteful spending were curtailed our taxes wouldn't have had to have been jacked up by 26% in 2011.

Brookhaven will protect us from this by moving those city taxes from the county and capping them. If our Brookhaven citizens see a need for more taxation we will vote in an increase, but as our neighbors in Sandy Springs and Dunwoody have shown, small city government keeps tax burdens to a minimum.

Mr. Dean, regarding that tax increase, is your property valued correctly by the county? If not, you need to contact this fellow. He can assist you with appealing your property taxes. He sent his mailer to the northern part of 30319 last week.

http://atlantaappeals.com/

Please pass the yellow mustard!

Mr Hamburger,
Wait a second. Do you suggest that Mike Jacobs himself would send out a mailer to drive business to his law firm to capitalize on property tax appeals? Is this a solicitation for business from a State Representative when he has advised his constituency to appeal their assessments? And furthermore, if you watch his informative video found here http://goo.gl/Pw7IB you may find some other info you may need. What's also weird, wouldn't this reduce property tax collections his beloved Brookhaven City proposition desperately needs? Oh wait. I remember. The CVI study ASSUMES that 100% of ALL property tax assessments will not be appealed and counts on 100% collections. Ok now I'm really confused. Propose a city based on 100% collections, then tell people how to appeal their assessments (which greatly lowers much needed tax revenue), then send out a mailer that he will help with the process (for a nominal fee), and expect his constituents to believe he isn't doing this for personal financial reasons? Strange. And to think we are being asked to trust the politicians and the wanna be politicians behind creating Brookhaven City. Whew.

Thanks for your concern Hamburger, but of course you realize the 26% property tax RATE increase has nothing to do with my assessed value.

DeKalb bureaucracy is wasteful, Brookhaven incorporation is a large step in the right direction for our citizens.

Mr. Dean, yes, one has nothing to do with the other, However, Rep. Jacobs can take some of the sting out of that increase if you engage his services for the purpose of reducing your tax value which has absolutely nothing to do with appraised value.

http://atlantaappeals.com/

By the way, have you heard what the millage rates will be for the proposed city of Brookhaven?

Special hamburger?

Tom,
Please don't use any more of my Occupation Taxes to build the 'brand equity'.

In the grand scheme of things it appears to have the same value as throwing money into the air.

Of course ya'll will be better off than being unincorporated. Bless your leaders for allowing you the choice.

DECA be very cautious, Chamblee boasted when they "cut" taxes from 7.95 mills to 7.4. In 2004 their rate was 4.13 mills. Wikipedia put their 2010 poverty rate at just under 23%. Homefacts.com said only 44% of residences are single unit detached and citi-data.com reported that for 2010 of their 2,780 house some 65% are rentals. Given the over abundance of pawn shops, check cashing joints,"we buy gold" hocks and massage parlors I'm curious as to what brand Chamblee is trying to create? Now, I've heard from an officer in their police that they are concerned about possibly having to take over parts of I85 because they don't have the training or manpower. The officer said the chief's plan was ask the state patrol to handle it. Why are they trying to expand if they're not prepared? Huntley Hills will you lose your extra police presence there after only a year if the Chamblee police are on I85 or stuck at some crime on Plaster Road? Municipalities like the City of Shambles should not be allowed to annex their way out of financial difficulties!

Re: DECA annexation. I believe that the lines that might be annexed include the access roads on the Southbound side, but exclude the interstate. If annexation occurs, there will no doubt be more officers added, and essentially more city employees added to cover the expanded area.

I am not that concerned about the tax rate. My property and a good percentage of the single family houses in this area are sub 200K valued properties. This means being a part of Chamblee is +/- $100.00 a year to be in Chamblee with a 200k county assessed value house. With the recent assessments many of these house values went down, which means it will cost even less within Chamblee because of their $30k exemption. (Right around 200K is the wash point/break even between unincorporated and city taxes).

As far as the rental percentages, we should fit right in. Lots of affordable houses for purchase means lots of affordable houses to rent. Houses in this area routinely rent for @$1000.00 a month. So it is a prime area for the rental market, especially when they can be purchased for less than 140K. Not a long term payoff as long as you keep it rented.

I think the future is bright for Chamblee. Expansion is natural for most cities....unless you are already surrounded by other cities, which leaves you no where else to go. Doraville is effectively boxed in, almost to the point of implosion. I will bet Chamblee may seek other areas to annex after July 31st.

Jordan,
You might want to have a lengthy chat with small business owners (those not in real estate or involved in 'renewing the Chamblee brand) to get a better idea of what you preach.

We'll have to hear how candidates envision influencing the City, but I can see how someone who was against cityhood might be a good voice representing us, if that candidate would be driven to keep expenses down and bureacracy to a minimum.

After Brookhaven passes we will have a period of healing, those who spoke against the city vote will be welcomed back to the flock.

Dean your point resonates with me. I have absolutely no pol aspirations. My oppo to incorporation, and subsequent involvement with Dunwoody, provides me with a critical, yet objective perspective on local governance. It's pretty cool to have a blank slate, to start over, and to create a good model that will serve generations to come.

I urge my Brookhaven neighbors to do their due diligence, ask questions, then vote your conscience. Get involved, upon incorporation - The worst of government can only occur when not regulated by an active citizenry.

Finally, I do not hate or even dislike DeKalb County, or I would vote with my feet. That may change if the County cannot responsibly address the legitimate grievances brought forth in Dunwoody and Brookhaven that affect EVERY SINGLE resident.

I am thankful that I can cajole, argue, fuss, and fight about local governance, as we approach Independence Day. We owe it to those who currently serve, to those who have served, and to those who have paid the ultimate price to enjoy the right to choose our form of governance.

Steve,
I'm sorry. TV is largely make believe. Please make a note of that.

More FUD, personal attacks and just downright untrue statements from an anonymous poster trying to influence our vote.

Despicable tactics but voters won't buy into it.

Mayer at least got the Chamblee police being a "gestapo" right.

As for Mayer believing that "there is a lot more power at this end of the city [Ashford Park] than they realize," Mayer must be living in Never Never Land.

To date the only "power" evident, pertaining to a new 'City of Brookhaven', has been that of a stern cadre of political hacks whose "model city," hatched at the Capitol and carried out from a pub, is nothing more than an invention to surveil our neighborhoods and squat.

While a new city has never been a bad idea, given the ample scheming demonstrated and imposed, the bully-pen, that this new city would then have to be, certainly is not.

Godwin's law from Wikipedia:

Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies) is an observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990 that has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches.

In other words, Godwin observed that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably makes some comparison to Hitler and the Nazis.

Godwin's law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the widespread Reductio ad Hitlerum form. The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses, irrespective of whether it's appropriate or not.

Precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.

"We were all friends and neighbors before this started up and will be so again..... "---Steve Walker

Please do speak for yourself. Thanks.

Any city, here or elsewhere, would die to have I-85, Buford Hwy, North Druid Hills, Peachtree Road, Dresden, Clairmont Road frontage and commercial mixed use districts: now and into the future. As Atlanta growns and redevelops, these close-in spots are much more valuable than anything in Peachtree Corners or beyond. So yes Developers, Politicians want these lands! And we need to make sure they are developed properly. NOT BY $outh deklab money grabbers!

Why is a NEW McDonalds rushing into Clairmont @ clairmnon Terrace....?!? that do not want to deal with the landscaping and zoning buffers a new and better city would enforce!

Most Dekalb developments are sorry! Look at North Fulton versus Dekalb, beofre incorporation: 20X nicer! tree islands in parking lots, buffers in strip malls, this is due to overly districts and design reveiw boards and zoning standards with teeth!

Keep decisons and dollars local! Don't shift them to other areas!

"Any city, here or elsewhere, would die to have I-85, Buford Hwy, North Druid Hills, Peachtree Road, Dresden, Clairmont Road frontage and commercial mixed use districts: now and into the future...." ---not on of 60

Yet we have all that without dying to be a city.

'So yes Developers, Politicians want these lands!" ---not one of 60

And, somehow, your remedy is to empower even more "politicians."

"Keep decisons and dollars local!"---not one of 60

Sure. In this case, the back room of a local pub.

Anyway dG: Vernon Jones and his comon day counterparts in Dekalb are the worst of the worst! Go independence. Rid at least part of your tax bill from waste, greed, and corruption! All supported by dG, EE, HAM, and all the other NO losers! Plus i never trust anyone in Decutur! EVER EVER EVER.

"Anyway dG: Vernon Jones and his comon day counterparts in Dekalb are the worst of the worst!" ---not one of 60

As bad as they are, they're comparatively amateurs.

'Go independence. Rid at least part of your tax bill from waste, greed, and corruption!'

If I thought it would get rid of at least part, I would.

But these orther guys have already proven to me that they want---and will have---more than just lucre.

"All supported by dG, EE, HAM, and all the other NO losers! Plus i never trust anyone in Decutur! EVER EVER EVER."

You really ought to broaden your mind and trust no politician; and then take if from there.

So far some good has come from the city proposal. After all these years several much needed islands are being built on Caldwell Road in Ashford Park. While they'll be pretty, they have been long needed to make safe turns onto and off Caldwell Road.

I propose we should have a new city proposal every five years or so.

The CVI study done for the City of Peachtree Corners was for a very limited Gov't covering only Zoning.......When the City Council was elected by the people of the City of Peachtree Corners THEY expanded on the scope of the City Gov't. thus increasing their budget, The elected City Council did this; it was not due to any errors or anything else from the CVI study done for that City.

Sorry Steve, Peachtree Corners does indeed have a limited government comprised of Zoning/Development, Code Enforcement, and Trash Collection. Their charter named these three services, the CVI study named those three services and projected budgets/income for them, the Mayor and city council voted on and approved the 2.7 million dollar budget for those three services.

Any spew from anyone saying the reason their budget is so far off from the CVI "estimate" because of mission creep is quite simply wrong. Their mission still involves the required minimum of three services to be a city. Whether they need to spend that much money to provide those services....well that can be blamed as usual on the elected officials.

The city was sold to the people by the Peachtee Corners Yes group on a specific budget(CVI Study Estimate), http://cityofpeachtreecornersga.com/PeachtreeCorners_FiscalAnalysis.pdf and then when reality sets in and the elected officials decide how to spend the money, they do not remember previous estimates before the public vote.

Remember, you have bought this city already. If you have had problems with DeKalb dealing with flooding and your roads/drainage in the past. Make sure that the new city will have enough funds to finance infrastructure repairs/upgrades in the future.

I would not touch roads/drainage/stormwater in the Brookhaven area as a city under any circumstances. Infrastructure is too old. Replacement=$$$$$

Peachtree Corners = Somewhere outside of 285, where no one really wants to live!
Sorry but true! Brookhaven area will just keep getting more dense, more expensive and eventually chase out the losers!

LIES, LIES and more lies! Guess you got your PHD in BS!

Actually 'not one', many people moved out there to get away from people like you...

WHO ARE THESE THREE DEVELOPERS. NAME THEM or be quite.

"I was glad to read the Q&A with Ronnie Mayor. My only experiences with Mr. Mayor have been at various town-hall meetings hosted by Mike Jacobs..." ----Tom S.

Well, when a "...town-hall meeting hosted by..." must then be a charade, how can you tell with whom, if any, the charade leaves off?

Only a politician could try to restrict your 1st amendment right to free speech while explaining to you his city isnt run like the gestapo...
Thanks Scott for bolstering the NO case. We dont need any more double-speaking politicians...

Don't disagree with any of your comments! However, maybe they should defer post vote then! Just saying.

Dekalb County design and overlay standards are 1950 compared to Sandy Springs and/or Hilton Head for example. Dekalb looks like one big Strip Mall. Overlay sign standards and design guidelines are what make cities look nice and unique.

The good thing is McDonalds has cash and its new stores are modern and nice. Weather they will landscape it nicely and plant lots of trees is another thing.

"Weather they will landscape it nicely and plant lots of trees is another thing."

Well, you certainly aren't taking any cues from the renovation of McDonald's across from the subway station on P'tree. A nice job indeed---without any 'new city.'

That was MCD, not deadkalb. Just look at the Development at Clairmont and Buford highway - there are gads of neon signs! Lovely! Vegas not. Tacky and very cheap lookning: YES. Just what the NO people are: tacky and cheap! ONLY Exception: they like to donate ALL of their money to South Dekalb! Yippee.

"That was MCD, not deadkalb. Just look at the Development at Clairmont and Buford highway - there are gads of neon signs! Lovely! Vegas not. Tacky and very cheap lookning: YES. Just what the NO people are: tacky and cheap! ONLY Exception: they like to donate ALL of their money to South Dekalb! Yippee." ---not one of 60

If the MxConsulate would move, at least, to S. DeKalb and take the Brookhaven Yes authors with them, I'll certainly vote for a city devoid of them.

Immediately following Carter's invitation of Mexico's delegation to observe US Elections in Georgia, Nov., 1992, the conclusion:

“U.S. elections would be so easy to manipulate'"! ---Mx Delegation
Spokesman, Dr. Miguel Basanez

(Source: The Carter Center’s “The International Observation of the
U.S. Elections” - 1210.pdf, Page 30)

Partial proofs: http://goo.gl/QjAOB http://goo.gl/1Wn0G

As bad as things have been with Mx's Consulate in our own neighborhood---much less a new city---with PRI retaking Mx's Presidency, it's going to get worse.

Squatting is a contagion.

"Gabacho: Chicano pejorative term for an English-speaking, non-Hispanic.
Nice!" ---Max

While living in Mexico for some twenty years, people would ask me my name. From time to time, I'd reply "don Gabacho." You can imagine their surprise. While almost all appreciated the wry humor they'd appreciate also just what kind of person I must be. They had never thought of the two words combined and had to realize that I---a gringo no less---understood Mexicanisms at least as well, if not better, than themselves. They thereafter called me by that nick-name with all the respect of a true amigo.

Same for the illegals here.

The non-working class, either MxGov personnel or those trying to ingratiate themselves to the MxGov, would call me something else---still do.

As a consequence I find the nick-name a great qualifier.

please go back to mexico.

I know people say it is more government and to an extent it is...but it also is not. If you think of government as a pie that is divided between federal, state, and county. The new city will be slicing the county portion...taking away from the county to make a new slice. The redundancy comes in when you think that each slice needs a plate so it can be served. Now that we have 4 slices, we need 4 plates instead of 3. One of the goals of the new city should be to try to make their new plate as small as possible by reducing extra overhead, etc. The hope is that the city can take their slice and divide it up more efficiently than the county could.

You say that the "Yes folks" have been given a chance to respond to community concerns about the proposed city and they have not answered. I will agree that some answers are not exactly straight. Is there anywhere I can find an enumerated list of concerns? So far, I have seen:
1. new city = higher taxes
2. new city = less police coverage
3. new city = more politicians = more corruption

Those have been discussed a lot on this web site. What are the other concerns?

Hi Randy. It is indeed another full layer of government and bureaucrats. And looking at the ones who seem to be bubbling up to the surface, we could be in real trouble.

WITHOUT CITY: You + County + State + Federal = YOU and 3 layers of Gov't
WITH CITY: You + City + County + State + Federal = YOU and 4 layers of Gov't

What is the Times News? That new "newspaper" that clearly has an agenda? Sorry, when I read that first issue, my first thought is that I bet there will not be an issue AFTER the July 31 referendum date. The only reason for being for that Dolly Purvis paper is to pack articles for NOCITYBROOKHAVEN.

Now, if I was gullible, I might have fallen for the ruse.

As opposed to sending ALL of Brookhavens TAX Dollars to run the highly dysfunctional and inefficient and non locally serving County GOB-MENT! Got to love the No peeps. Another layer and other layer. No its ridden ourselgves form corrupt layers of bloated DEAD-KAB!

How many murders in DEADKAB today, sounds like community policing really works, probably police invloved shootings too! Got to love Corrupt DEADKAB! LOL.

EBU: nothing for you good.

It is all the way you look at it. I have asked that NOCITYBOOKHAVEN have an open meeting to present their case--but they have ignored these requests. To paraphrase you--"why wouldn't NO want to get their clear message out there anyway? ...The vacuum creates only benefits a Yes vote. Well, maybe No talking points are weak and full of holes. But again, if they feel confident about them, why duck an opportunity to get engage with the community?"

I cannot vote for a side that will not be open to having an Open meeting. It is one thing to pay for a billboard to Vote No. And have supporters of Dekalb County/Burrell Ellis and the No City side blog here ten times a day. Make accusations about the motives of the Yes crowd. Floating conspiracy theories etc.

It is quite another thing to impress voters by having the Triumvirate sit on a stage and present and answer questions.

Says alot to me that there is no willingness to conduct an open meeting.

Could anyone enlighten me with why NOCITY has turned down invitations for debate, live chats and open meetings? Anybody?

Phil,
The No crowd doesn't have to sell anything. The Yes crowd does. This is not a candidate against a candidate. It is a group of people fighting an issue and another group trying to sell one. Also - The Author of HB 636, Mike Jacobs continually declines attending ANY forum. When he decides to attend, I'll bet NoCity will attend.
BrookhavenYes is a special interest group anyway. Everyone knows that. "He [J Max Davis] wants to be mayor so badly he can taste it. So if he wants to get in there, let him get beat up for a while. But he better be a tough cookie because he's going to be the whipping boy.", Ronnie Mayer.

Mr. Phil, are you going to the cityhood forum Monday, July 9, 7:00 pm Lupton Auditorium at Oglethorpe? I hear the No folks were listening and set this up just for you!

However, Mr. Thomas is correct. The only folks that have something to sell are the folks pushing this new city concept. Many of your neighbors understand this and do not see much to get excited about with the Yes meetings with other cities, mailers, and robo calls. However, one of my neighbors did get real excited about Rep. Jacobs and his offer to assist her with protesting her property taxes. Here is his website: http://atlantaappeals.com/

Please pass the yellow mustard!

I wonder if Intrade has a line on whether Rep. Mike Jacobs will be showing up . . .

May I have some more thin sliced onions?

At least the Reporter, Neighbor, and Patch papers have featured articles on both sides of the issue; I'll bet you won't be seeing that with the Times rag.

Hannah, you will hear many statements designed to foster FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) from the Tories (those against incorporation), you will also hear many personal attacks against those in our community leading the way to cityhood.

These types of statements aren't usually 100% true (some cherry picked numbers without telling the whole story) and are certainly mean spirited.

I would encourage you to do your own research on the facts and discount the FUD and personal attacks.

J. Max Davis stated during the online question/answer period a few days ago that private polling conducted by the Brookhaven Yes group was:

30% will vote yes for the new city.
30% will vote no for the new city.
30% are undecided.

I don't know about any of you, but I have never seen a poll where there were so many undecided votes. He also did not throw out the other 10 percent.

Maybe they were just made up numbers....either that or 30% of the people hung up/slammed the door on them.

Make really good friends with your city neighbors now, peace will come as being part of some of them later.

Bill,
The polling claims by Brookhaven Yes are useless until they released along with the cross tabs. Cross tabs are the backup data. It is highly likely that if the Brookhaven Yes polling data were positive for their cause, we would have seen it long long ago.

Only political operatives know about crosstabs, I read that once...

Smart conservative people dont read patch er aol er huff post. only Seira Club members E E, or Billionaire tax shelter er foundations creators, or police and county gobment unions! say it aint so but patch is skewed and not true representation of the real Brookhaven. lots of fat with the meat...

Hi B lowe, Carolyn, Jodi, ME Imlay, Chuck Konas, Hambergur fries and bad shakes -EE, et al! Sleep tite and lock ur doors...I hear crime is up in the hood, and Dekalb is on a county break....

go TT, such a fool...

Hannah,
Have you never been part of a focus group in your business career? Here's some info. FYI.

What are Crosstabs?
Crosstabs provide fine-grained results by demographic group (e.g. how do men vs. women feel about this issue?).

TT - I don't put too much stock in those polls - but it's probably easy for me to say that because I'm pro-city. I think the BY #'s that BL referenced - 30% Yay, Nay, & Maybe - are my best guess from what my ears have heard, eyes have seen.

Granted my yard-sign equation is a bit dusty, but if you carry the one and round up, it tells me it's pretty close. I've been pushing my jogging routes through different neighborhoods lately, and it should come as a surprise to no one that there are more BY signs in northern Brookhaven (had to try the name out) and more BN signs in Ashford Park (haven't been through other parts DV or historic Brookhaven yet).

Back to original point re: Mr. Mayer - I've heard he's done some good things for his neighborhood and community - but it was disappointing to see pot shots at Chamblee. Similar to others, I've seen impressive transparency / communication / policing from them in my neighborhood to be moved to one side of the fence. Not a bad showing at their 4th of July fireworks yesterday as well - felt like I was trying to find a tailgating spot in Athens. Granted, a fireworks show has nothing to do with a city's efficiency, but impressive nonetheless.

Good for you. I would love to have been able to do that. I missed many years with my children traveling around the country for work. I know it's a huge job so much respect to you. And you are sharp as well! Especially knowing that one use of cross tab data is in a political survey. Another use is for food flavor and color which is what I do. Whether or not you understand (or even care about) the "under the hood" data that is collected in polls or surveys, it does give credence to the survey or poll. My point in mentioning that before is - THAT data is what makes a poll scientific and credible. Gotta head to the airport so have a nice night. Please don't let this forum make you mad. It has a tendency to do that.

Phil,
Do understand that while these polls may not be scientific, the Yes's and No's do both have the opportunity to Vote more than once. So it balances out. Also, do ask yourself, with as many mailings, robo calls, etc., the Yes folks have conducted, if there were real polling numbers that indicated anything decidedly positive for their cause, surely they would publish that and include the backup instead of focusing on how unhappy they are with where they live.

Phil,
Please don't be discouraged. You can still use your power of multiple votes on the online polls and that, perhaps, will make you feel a bit better. I for one do not think the top line concept of city hood is a bad idea - just as starting a new business is not a bad idea - both when done in the right place at the right time. As a person who has started several businesses, it all starts with a sound business and financial plan. Then that plan is sold to investors and lenders to secure the capital needed. Unfortunately, this Brookhaven plan does not have strong enough financials for a savvy investor or a reputable lender to sign on. So why are they asking us to? The millage cap is one of the most hurtful issues in the plan. It is essentially a "capped" income scenario whereas bonds and loans for the city are much harder to secure, with higher interest rates, and fewer lenders who would take the risk. I think their are some really great people on both sides of the issue and I hope that once this is all said and done, that the huge rift in our community will begin to close rapidly. I do feel though that there has been some irreparable damage done in some cases, which is truly unfortunate - especially when the time comes that we must all rally together. Random thoughts, but take it for what you will. Do note: if BYes had great polling numbers in their possession, my thought is that they would be broadcasted loudly. Take care Phil. Trying to be nice here. :)

The millage cap is one of the best things about Brookhaven cityhood.

Everywhere in this country Government is wildly out of control, continually raising taxes to spend more and more of our resources. DeKalb County is ground zero of this philosophy with its 2011 26% property tax rate increase.

Fiscal sanity is built in to the Brookhaven charter.

The really excellent part of it is that even with the cap there will be enough funds staying local to provide better services than the neglect DeKalb currently provides.

This is a truly excellent opportunity for our area.

Dean,
When things are going well, the cap is ok. When you need to borrow money, it makes it very difficult. But since you seem to be an expert on the city financials, and are clearly a "believer", far be it for me to tell you you are wrong. Sir, I do this for a living. I start businesses for a living, I finance businesses for a living and work daily with lenders and investors. But, I will yield to your expert knowledge. Besides, Max and Eric will be here soon enough to straighten us all out anyway.

I respect your opinion Grieg (you won't get a personal attack recirpocation back from me), but if the County needs to borrow more money I would just as soon a referendum on the issue (as will be the case in Brookhaven) than the DeKalb model of Burrell Ellis unilaterally deciding which new Soapbox Derby course to waste our resources on.

Dean,
Sorry if you took my comment as a personal attack. Not the intent. You have stated the same thing over and over again, so I assume you must know what you are talking about, otherwise, you would not be so emphatic. If you want change in your county, if we all took the time and expelled as much energy as we all have regarding Brookhaven, we could bring about change. My guess is, no matter which way the vote goes, August 1st people will be back in their recliner being uninvolved as usual. I for one go to each and every meeting I can attend, volunteer for everything I can and do indeed make a difference. After all, we are still going to be in the county. Get out and get involved or do nothing and get nothing. Your choice.

Involvement in governance is all well and good, but most of us have own personal lives to manage and would prefer our elected officlals to responsibly run our government (you know, the whole reason they are elected in the first place). Unfortunately the DeKalb bureaucracy has proven for years to be sideways to this idea.

Sure the millage cap could be viewed as a negative for securing bond financing (though it didn't hurt Dunwoody's proposed Bond Issuance. For tax anticipation notes or other short term financing vehicles the millage cap does not create a problem so long as we adopt the appropriate budget.

The millage cap is essential for avoiding the Peachtree City experience where all the available funds were budgeted, thus the $100,000 call center for a city that was supposed to have only 750,000 in expenses. Or a county manager compensation package that soaked up almost a 1/3 of the anticipated budget.

Though I don't see a need or support Long term Dept for Brookhaven. We have enough park land and we have a capital budget that will allow us to purchase land or save to purchase more land if necessary. Police service does not need Bond funding. The CVI budgeted more for Parks/Roads/and Stormwater that what DeKalb Currently spends. And we should lease City Hall space - since its a minimal amount that is needed. Looking at DeKalb's use of Bond proceeds is all the reason I need to not want the City to float bonds.

I think the polling numbers are close.

"it all starts with a sound business and financial plan" I agree with this statement and Brookhaven has an incredibly sound plan from a financial point of view. True did they sell it well enough is the big question. We'll find out on July 31.

Mr. Dean, unfortunately, the citizens are the check valve for their elected officials. Unmonitored, you end up with the government you are running away from. And, a re-read of 'The Mayor Of Brookhaven' Answers Five Questions From Patch gives an insight that any new government that may be voted in later this month will have to be closely monitored. We have no knowledge of what the select group of city promoters has in store for us if this new city passes. The Vinson study is meaningless and once voted in to office the newly elected can do almost anything they want towards forming a new city. The Yes bunch wants a city and the rest of us have no clue as to what they are creating.

Sir, special hamburgers already have cheese . . . It is in an internal pocket in the special hamburger!

Rather than continue to tap-dance around the millage cap, and other childish inventions, can we just be honest and state clearly for everyone to see:

Should the Oppose City come into existence, all costs relative to owning/renting a residence or a business WILL INCREASE if any or all of the SWAG estimates are anywhere near accurate!!

I don't think that is right Eddie. Dunwoody has the lowest tax burden of any citizens in the DeKalb. The 26% property tax rate increase in 2011 by the county bureacracy is surely not their last attempt to "rape" citizens in unincorporated DeKalb, and Brookhaven will protect us from this.

Mr. Dean, since you seem to keep up with these tax details, do you know what the 2012 millage rates for unincorporated DeKalb and the cities in DeKalb are? Do you know what the projected 2012 millage rates for the proposed city of Brookhaven is for both county and city? Additionally, do you know what area in DeKalb (city or unincorporated) has the lowest millage rate for 2012? There is a cityhood vote coming up soon, please share your findings as folks need to do their research. Please, just facts, no FUD.

Smell that charcoal? Oh yeah! That is one exceptionally fine special hamburger!

Hamburger can you cite what the HOST credit will be? There is only a backhanded comment that Host will be over half. But I have yet to find more confirmation. Also I notice on my tax bill my Host Credit is only 42% it only gets to 46% by including the state exemption. Would we still get that portion? And how does the extra 10,000 exemption change the calculation?

Mr. Eric, the 2012 HOST credit was previously cited elsewhere on the Patch. However, I am looking at the same documentation you are, how do you interpret it? Maybe you can answer the questions posed to Mr. Dean; I think he may be befuddled with his own FUD . . .

Man! Those are some exceptionally well made special hamburgers! Schweet!

Hamburger, I don't believe the numbers have been finalized for 2012.

These factual statements stand:

In 2011 Dunwoody residents had the lowest property tax rate burden in DeKalb.

In 2011 Dekalb jacked up the property tax rate in the unincorporated area by 26% rather than reduce thir well documented wasteful bureaucracy.

Mr. Eric, did you ever find the posts about the 2012 DeKalb County HOST credit? If so, could you please share your findings? Just what do those posts project the 2012 HOST credit would be?

Have you ever been cooking special hamburgers on a charcoal grill all day, drenched in special hamburger smoke, and while running a few errands, find that the ladies get real close to get a second or third whiff of that special hamburger redolence? Happens to me all the time . . .

Mr. Dean, call FUD on me if you like, but I am going out on a limb . . . 2012 tax millage rates lowest to highest listed below:

Unincorporated DeKalb
Dunwoody
Proposed Brookhaven

Right, Mr. Eric?

If the proposed city of Brookhaven fails, will you continue to complain or will you actively become involved for the purpose of governmental change?

Also, the last day for your property tax appeal is 07/13/2012. Rep. Jacobs can assist you and he can be reached at http://atlantaappeals.com/ Make sure you tell him Mr. HamBurger sent you!

Can you believe someone offered me some chicken wings this evening? There is nothing better than a lazy summer evening and a special hamburger and a Cheerwine!

Since you are in the mood for guessing games today Hamburger, care to throw out a guess as to when DeKalb will raise the property tax rate on citizens in unincorporated areas again like the 26% increase in 2011? 1 or 2 years after the current elections at the most, right?

This couldn't happen in Brookhaven without citizen consent via a vote.

Mr. Dean, do you really think that was a guess? Your lack of knowledge astonishes me.

As we speak, the BY folks are huddling to figure how to couch this information for their forthcoming salvo of robo calls, e-blasts, and bulk mailings. Monday should be interesting . . . And Wednesday?

This cityhood issue is an extremely political issue. Regarding the BY folks, there is the “in crowd” that knows just what the Hell is going on with their future city and then there are the followers or pawns as they are referred to. The “in crowd” has known this information for some time now. And, they are trying to figure out just how to flip it for their advantage. The pawns? Well, they will not know what they have bought into until they have figured out they have been used.

The impetus for the Brookhaven cityhood movement was started with an inconclusive poll of a limited number of folks in the northern portion of the proposed city footprint. The middle and southern portions of this area? Never consulted, not even a kiss . . .

Where is Rep. Mike Jacobs? Mr. J. Max Davis? Mr. Stan? Mr. Jeff? Mr. Max? Consulting with their $pinMeister?

Uh . . . Would you be kind enough to pass the yellow mustard?

Right Mr. Eric?

Special hamburger and a Cheerwine?

Hamburger I remember someone asking if HOST was raised to 52% or 59% would unincorporated be lower than Brookhaven if Brookhaven went to its millage cap. I said YES. Though I qualify on the 52% since I'm not sure how the extra 10k brookhaven exemption and the state exemption play into it.

But I asked then and I ask now what is the evidence of what the Credit will be? yes I know it will be higher than last year.

And its Ironic that the No folks are playing the who will be lower card based on a higher HOST credit because to the extent it is higher means its a higher amount that Brookhaven gets from HOST and thus a greater likelihood that a budget that spends more on parks, roads and provides more police patrols could be done at a millage rate below the Brookhaven Cap.

Bottom line we are talking a 50 or 100 dollar swing here. Its the better services I'm looking for.

Though I have to admit when yes folks question Obama supporters for supporting economically proven recessionary fighting deficit spending vs. the silly TSPLOST claim that merely raising taxes during recovery or expansion periods creates more economic activity makes me think I should blindly follow some local Dems in DeKalb worried about losing power instead of changing and adapting.

Now if you can make sense of that.......

Mr. Eric, my money is on 59% for the DeKalb HOST credit.

Just where is Cynthia McKinney when YOU need her?

Have a Cheerwine and go to bed early tonight . . .

Eric,
When will Brookhaven actually get the HOST distribution? What year do you think that Brookhaven will get it's first HOST disbursement? Dunwoody ran into this problem.
Please see link. http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/printedition/2008/09/10/dunwoodycash.html

Eric,
Please ask Mike Jacobs to revise the numbers he is supplying you. The ones you are using are incorrect. I know this, for I am a scientist and a genius. Notice my enormous cranium.

Mr. Thomas, that is an enlightening article, I like this quote:

“It will be up to the council, many of whom are tied to Citizens for Dunwoody, whether to approve the recommendations and sign off the contract with CH2M Hill that the group is negotiating.”

Interesting . . . I bet if we see this new city pass we will see a HOST of Brookhaven Yes folks running for office.

I also like this quote:

“Georgia’s newest city will run in the red during its first year of operation, according to a new study by advocates of cityhood.”

I guess if you need a study to cover your arse, you can create one whenever you like? However, if you are a taxpayer trying to make an intelligent decision regarding a new city vote, you are SOL? WTF??? Must be a lot of pawns in the proposed city of Brookhaven . . .

Rep. Mike Jacobs, Mr. Jeff Keller, Mr. Stan Segal, Mr. J. Max Davis, Brookhaven Yes, can we have a revised Vinson study to give us a better understanding of the financial basis for this new city? Additionally, can you tell us just who will be running for office if this new city is passed?

By the way . . . Just where is Rep. Mike Jacobs?

Please pass the yellow mustard!

another source, another author! good stuff!

Ms. Mary, my now deleted post from last night did not contain “nasty and disrespectful remarks”. However, it contained a compliment, a criticism, and observation about an elected official using his position for gain. For the record, Mr. Tim is familiar with the mailings soliciting business I mention in my now deleted post. Be clear about this: My post could have been a mailer from a candidate running against Rep. Mike Jacobs sent to your and Mr. Tim’s mail box and nothing would have been said . . .

As for Mr. Tim and Patch deletions, he has deleted some extremely minor items before, however, as a Patch representative, he can do as he pleases with his forum. Someone got their panties in a wad and a post got deleted because of it. As for myself, I am not so thin-skinned. Speak of me as you like and you will never hear me complain. The way you use your words towards me represent you.

Please pass the yellow mustard!

Personal attacks and attempts to spread fear through false information...this is the Tory MO.

It won't work

Mr. Dean, please, just what century are you living in? I always look forward to your posts, they are so informative!

Special hamburger?

Ms. Mary, just one last thought before I extinguish the grill, prepare for bed, and say my nightly prayers.

This entire cityhood issue has left a bad taste in the mouths of many elected officials in state government. Its development, presentation, and execution along with the fiascos relating to the Vinson folks have made a lot of folks look rather foolish. These folks, along with many citizens in the proposed city footprint, look at Rep. Mike Jacobs a Hell of a lot differently now . . . If re-elected, it will be interesting to see just how effective he will be.

Please pass the yellow mustard!

Hamburger,

Shhhh.

I thought you were aware of this....Jacobs is trying to distance himself from the cityhood vote on July 31st. He has already done his job as far as getting the bill through the government hurdles and signed by the governor. Out of sight, out of mind is the order of the day, especially when you are running for re-election in November. If he made an appearance, it was surely to remind those in attendance that he was running for re-election in November and their contributions to his campaign were needed. After July 31st, a decision will be made to either spend the money to try to win, or to just let the money remain in the coiffers for the next candidate of a certain party.

The previous statements were merely provided as entertainment, but the possibility exists that this could have happened.

Really.

As far as the Mary Le Peux character....Bwahahahaha. Too much. Way too much. This country will truly collapse if people base their decisions similarly to the way you have stated to base yours. And I am almost sure that it has already started falling. A sad state of affairs that can only be corrected by an asteroid at least 6 miles wide or a plague that wipes out 99 percent of the breeding population. I do fear for the world filled with simple minded creatures. Unfortunately, this is all too common and humans are de-evolving. It's ok, at least you have lots of company.

Just no more breeding, ok?

Another alcohol filled evening. heh.